Scottish primary teachers - could you please help a prospective PGDE student?

[Habbibu]

I'm about to apply for a PGDE course for 2014 entry. I've had a fair amount of experience, sorted referees, etc, and am now trying to read up on Curriculum for Excellence. Could you tell me your thoughts on how it works in primary, and what are the key issues from your perspective? I have the documents, but wanted a practitioner's point of view. Many thanks.

Habbibu, do you mean key issues/thoughts around how CofE works in Primary or generally about education?

In primary, really. I know that there are a fair number of concerns in secondary, but I get the feeling that people feel it fits better into the primary system. I think I just want an idea of how people feel it works in practice - do the levels and assessments make sense? How free do you feel to decide what you'll teach within the curriculum framework? Are you conscious of the four capabilities as you're planning and teaching?

But I've just re-read your post and realised I misread it! I asked about CofE to try and be specific, but other issues of note in the Scottish system would be welcome.

I imagine this will vary dependant on the school/local authority, but my thoughts (I teach in a mainstream, large town based primary with the provision for children with a variety of ASN/SEN needs who wouldn't attend other mainstream schools in the local area normally)-

• CofE is fairly well embedded where I teach in terms of teaching practises.
• Assessments are rather woolly, there is no standard testing required and thus parents often comment that they are unsure about where their child is.
• We do not report on levels at my school currently other than to say a child is working at first level, second level etc. Some other schools state that a child is consolidating, secure or one other thing I can't remember the word now in relation to each level. My school is due to start this later next year as our local authority has stipulated that reporting needs to move this way.
• You are as free to decide what you will teach as the school lets you be. My current school has written all of the curriculum areas into schemes of work which we use. However, I find this helpful and not stifling as you are given the freedom to work at this at the right pace for your class and not having to push to assessments etc as and when. It also means you can be very aware of what a child has already covered.
• It allows children to work at the correct pace for them. The challenge, as always in teaching I think, is stretching those more able, and supporting those who need more time.
• We are expected to report on the four capacities to parents, and thus it is included in our planning and assessment. Not in great detail, but you have to be aware of it and show planning for it on a termly basis at my school.

Overall, I think that CofE leaves you with a fair amount of freedom as a teacher. My concern is that it is perhaps too much freedom. Parents are unsure what reporting means in practise, and it can at times be hard to demonstrate that you are challenging children enough. We are increasingly seeing (at my school this is) that perhaps CofE has gone a tad to far away from formal assessments and things, and that they spend a lot of time focusing on group/paired work but not enough on individual.

I think we are still trying to get CofE right in primaries, but it is a world apart from the old 5-14 system and that is has many, many positives.

Regarding education generally, common concerns amongst our staffroom/teaching friends -

• are we setting children up for the future properly where they actually have to face exams?
• the inclusion of children with ASN/SEN needs in mainstream classes can add so much good for all of the children, but many councils are cutting support for learning budgets and classroom assistants are like gold dust. I often feel like I am skating over the top with the needs in my classroom and not giving them what they all need. But, this is perhaps just part of being a teacher?
• consistency across classes/schools/authorities in what is taught

I hope that helps, sorry it is a bit waffly. Give me a shout if I can help in any other ways.

As for your PGDE application, good luck! I went into teaching from another career and whilst every day has me pulling my hair out at some point, I love it with a passion. There is no other job with the highs and lows of teaching on a daily basis I don't think. Just make sure you find the right school for you as they are all so different!

Oh, wow, thanks. That's really helpful. My own dd is in p3 atm (Fife) and we do get the developing/consolidating/secure thing on reports. I think, personally, given the choice between that and the detail (and concomitant worry, it seems) parents in England get, I'd rather have the Scottish system. But easy for me to say, as she's doing fine!

I've been thinking about inclusion, as I really don't know enough about it. Do you think schools with specialist units like yours are better able to address children's needs, or does it mean that children with SN/SEN are rather pushed away from other mainstream schools?

Developing, that's it, thank you! Half term still, need to get back into it for Monday . Having your own daughter in primary at the moment will hopefully be a help in your application, you will understand what parents' concerns/thoughts.

Regarding inclusion, I think it depends on the particular child and the ASN/SEN needs they have. Many of our children linked to the specialist unit are in wheelchairs, or have other physical mobility issues, but that is the least of their worries in some cases. Some of the children are fed through tubes, are mute which is put down to their autistic diagnosis etc. So for them, I think a unit like we have is actually a very good combination for them - they are in a mainstream school, and included in mainstream classes as appropriate for each child, and have access to specialist support and a differentiated curriculum which other state schools might not have e.g. horse riding, swimming, cooking, social groups etc. I think it is good for all of the children at the school to have that mix.

For children with other needs such as autistic/aspergers diagnosis etc who are far better placed in the mainstream classroom full time with appropriate support, I'm not sure a specialist unit is the best idea in a school because there is a bit of a feeling locally that other schools shouldn't have children with some ASN needs, and they are better off in a school like the one I teach in, when I strongly feel that these children should have access to any school they wish. Every child has varying needs, and it is up to the school to ensure they support those children.

So it's a bit of both really - it makes a huge difference in our school for many of our children, but also means there is a bit of an expectation that the children will be taught very differently to how they would be in another school which I don't think is valid if you know what I mean?

The other thing that makes inclusion much easier in our school is that we are an open plan school. As a teacher, I find that much easier to support all of the children with because so many other adults are in and out of class all the time. I'm not sure how that would work in a closed classroom environment.

As for the Scottish system v. the English. I am in agreement with you. Particularly at the moment as I have just resigned from my school and we are in the process of moving to England in the next few months. I am rather scared looking at some of the schools down there!

I'm applying too !! What uni/s are you applying to ? Watching this thread with interest

Oh, gosh, barmy, good luck! As regards to AS, that's rather what I'd suspected - that having units can foster a "not my problem" attitude in neighbouring schools. Interesting about open plan. Dd's school is open plan, and I can really see the benefits. Thanks so much for all your help. It's much appreciated.

ALittleBit, I'm applying to Dundee - nowhere else terribly practical for me, though Edinburgh might work at a push if DH gets a sabbatical. It'd be v expensive, though. I am wondering if UCAS will ever open the application process...

I'm in the west so I'm applying to glasgow , strathclyde and UWS . It's so daunting I graduated from strathclyde in 2009 so I'm so nervous about going back to uni ! That's if I even get in !!!