What Does Harry Verdict Mean?

[OtherS]

Sorry if this is a bit dim, but I've not been following the security hoo-ha terribly closely so not sure I have it right... My understanding is that Harry (and his US family) will remain eligible for security if it is deemed necessary. And as he is so very unpopular in the UK, I would guess it would be considered necessary if he ever chooses to grace us with his presence. I don't really see that Charles, or anyone else, wants him to be mobbed or attacked - imagine the headlines if he were!

So how are things different for him now? He just has to tell us he's coming and we'll have a set of scary bodyguards waiting to protect his life and limb as soon as he touches down. Is all this because he begrudges having to announce his plans in advance and instead expects the (taxpayer-funded) bodyguards to be sitting around 24/7 twiddling their thumbs, just in case he wants to pop over on a whim?

He and Meghan have been threatened, that is on record. Other members of the Royal family have also been threatened. Iirc there are individuals in prison at the moment for threats against Meghan and Prince George.

However, for some reason Harry doesn't trust the security service assessment of his threat risk and the resultant level of security he receives when he visits. He believes he should receive the highest level of security at all times.

This I believe is a reflection of his fears and emotions around threats (which are understandable given his mother's death) and his inability to accept that his status changed when he stepped down as a working royal. He seems unable to understand that security decisions are made on facts, not how he feels.

He will always receive some level of security when in the UK. If he chooses not to visit because of his fears that is his decision.

I meant to add, we don't know about his current threat risk level. Anything in the press and the examples I mentioned are from a few years ago. Quite rightly current threat levels are not in the public domain.

I don’t quite agree that his emotions and feelings are understandable because of his mother’s death, though. She didn’t die due to a security threat. She died because she got into a car with a drunk driver, who I don’t think was an expert getaway driver, and she didn’t wear a safety belt. This followed a frankly bizarre decision to leave a perfectly safe hotel and take a journey that they didn’t need to take, knowing the paps were sniffing around. So I’m not sure that is grounds for Harry’s fears. Security is not there to fend off the paps as has been said before. And, ironically, Diana refused the security that was on offer 🤷‍♀️

edited for sense

I agree with you but I don't think Harry's emotions are rooted in the facts of what happened. That's why I phrased it the way I did. He believes Diana could have been protected and saved and on some emotional level he seems to believe he can save her by saving his family from a world he sees as full of deadly threats. The key for him is complete security at all times. He is wrong but facts don't change his mind.

I wonder if he actually knows (or understands) that she refused the very security he is insisting he needs 🤔

I'm pretty sure he believes that she was tricked into giving up security rather than making a choice. I do acknowledge that the lies she was told by Bashir probably contributed to her decision, but she wasn't tricked by the institution which is I think what he's implied.

The inside story is that he does have close protection at all times in the US. It’s been arranged through Meghan.

Apparently, he’s followed discreetly everywhere by a swarm of bees. If things get rocky a crack team of hairdressers also jumps in. If it all goes off Oprah Winfrey will appear from nowhere to hurl jars of jam of at anyone deemed a threat. Which includes people laughing at him.

I don't think he's necessarily likely to be physically attacked, but I would think there would be a possibility he might find himself among a crowd of people shouting abuse, especially if he were without any security. I would guess that his wife would be even more at risk of verbal abuse. Even behind barriers and surrounded by bodyguards (plus William and Catherine) they were loudly booed when they waked out after the Queen's death. But I don't know whether the possibility of this sort of 'attack' would mean he was eligible for security? I do think if this were to happen the optics would be terrible for the RF, so I would imagine they'd want to avoid it by arranging security. So the only difference for him would be that he'd have to call them to let them know he's arriving, which really doesn't seem like too much of an imposition...

I can't believe he's seriously requesting we fund his security overseas, how could that even work? Even if we were happy to send a load of cops away when we're suffering quite the shortage, we can hardly demand the US allows our police to operate over there - I don't imagine we let other countries' armed guards come here and start shooting at our citizens, so why would the US let us do that there? Or is he expecting us to demand that Trump organises some security for him?! Or does he want us pay to fund his private bodyguards over there, in the country he's chose to live, a long way from the protection we already fund for the RF...? Make it make sense!!

The RF don’t “arrange security” though, so in the situation of a potentially hostile crowd, they would only get security if RAVEC deemed there to be sufficient threat. I don’t think optics would be taken in to account. Plus if he was booed, it would possibly be a reflection of the general sentiment regarding Harry, so that would only be what is expected, I suppose

No security would stop people shouting at him.

But didn't he complain that the RF are the ones making the decision for RAVEC?

No, but if I were to be shouted at I think I'd prefer to be flanked by armed guards! Being alone and surrounded by a crowd of people hurling abuse would be absolutely terrifying (however well-deserved).

But they are not. That’s in his head

Eta As for having armed guards whilst being shouted at, tough. He can’t have met Special Protection for his feelings. I don’t think it would happen anyway. Why would he be walking around near a crowd? He isn’t a royal who does walkabouts.

Oh... maybe he should complain that they're not then, they'd maybe be more likely to give him security just to shut him up!

I don't understand why he feels he needs his own security at all if he's not planning on wandering the streets, I can't see how anyone would even know he was here unless he announced it? I'd expect him to get straight into a car from the plane, and then mooch about in secure properties owned by his friends and family. He said he can't visit hid dad without his own private bodyguards, but I don't get why as surely then he'd be under royal protection? If he wants to visit friends, just get in a blacked out car and drive there! It all seems such a weird case, I just can't fathom what he's actually hoping to achieve.

I'm also wondering about what the verdict means financially.

There was a judicial review and then a High Court appeal, both of which Harry lost. In one of the first hearings, the HO solicitor made a point of saying that since this was taxpayer money, they intended to pursue Harry for the full costs should he lose. Well, he has lost, so presumably he's going to be on the hook for a pretty hefty sum. I'm also sceptical of figures bandied about in the press, but they are talking upwards of £1 million. Even if that's an exaggeration, it will surely be well into the hundreds of thousands.

Harry is famously tight and he's not so rich that that sort of money is nothing to him. I bet he'll do anything he can to wiggle out of paying, so I hope the HO press him on this.

It's all a vicious circle, if Harry had just quietly left the UK and lead a quiet life in the USA without trashing his family, RAVEC, the British public , the press etc etc then he wouldn't be as disliked as he is. The more he moans the more disliked he is , the more likely he is to receive boos and shouts .

Well, facts should change his mind. He's an adult. He needs to understand the truth, which will help him move on. He's like a broken record at the moment, and seems to me to be clinging on to a victim mentality that is neither substantiated, nor healthy.

But to change his mind is to change his entire worldview, something that is rooted in trauma and damaged mental health. It isn't that easy to do, particularly as he doesn't seem to want to.

I know it isn't easy, but people have come through far worse. Think about all the people made motherless by the Yorkshire Ripper, their mothers died in the most brutal and degrading way, and justice took a long time.
Harry is an adult, with a lot of free time and a lot of money. He could work on this and come to terms with it. How come William isn't constantly playing the victim, airing his bitterness and grievances, constantly doing interviews about his misfortune?.

I completely agree with all that but am aware that we are all individuals and all have choices.

I can't believe he's seriously requesting we fund his security overseas, how could that even work? Even if we were happy to send a load of cops away when we're suffering quite the shortage, we can hardly demand the US allows our police to operate over there - I don't imagine we let other countries' armed guards come here and start shooting at our citizens, so why would the US let us do that there? Or is he expecting us to demand that Trump organises some security for him?! Or does he want us pay to fund his private bodyguards over there, in the country he's chose to live, a long way from the protection we already fund for the RF...? Make it make sense!!

Harry isn’t I don’t think suggesting the British taxpayer funds his security overseas. What he wants is the status back of having police protection 24/7 deemed necessary for him in the UK due to his being the King’s son. That would be akin to him being regarded by the UK State as an “Internationally Protected Person” or IPP. IPPs - heads of state, senior diplomats - are recognised by international treaties and all states have to provide them with security at the state’s expense if an IPP is in their country.

When Harry and Meghan first announced they were leaving, they said on their website that as they were IPPs, the current arrangements (the host state pays for security) would remain in place. They were swiftly told that this would be no longer be the case, however, and the website was changed. Meghan and Harry have since then had to pay for private security unless the country they are visiting (like Nigeria and Colombia) decide to provide it on their visit. So this is all about money - presumably the security bill is becoming unaffordable, and Harry wants the court to give him his IPP status back.

(And so the British government haven’t told the rest of the world not to protect Harry - that is ridiculous. What he is saying is that by not giving him the 24/7 protection that goes along with IPP status they are sending a signal that he shouldn’t be treated as an IPP by anyone else. That’s what he’s angry about.)

1. He wants the status of IPP as they originally claimed on their website.
2. He resents having to pay for security.
3. He wants to get as much out of the UK taxpayer as possible, because he served us for "35 years" 🙄

He basically wants the company car after having left the job. And for the company to carry on paying for the petrol and insurance after having left said job.

The committee's then-chair Sir Richard Mottram made that decision without carrying out a full review into threats Prince Harry faced at the time - but the Court of Appeal concluded he had done so for "sensible" reasons, and that a review would not have changed the outcome.
Prince Harry said his "jaw hit the floor" when he learned a representative of the Royal Household sits on the Ravec committee, and claimed that allowed it to exercise influence over what security members of the Royal Family get.
Prince Harry claimed Sir Richard "abandoned" a full review of his security arrangements after speaking to the Royal Household.

I totally agree with the court decision but I’d be interested to know if others think he had a point here? They say a review wouldn’t have affected the outcome but if Sir RM had planned on doing one but the Royal Household persuaded him not to, I don’t think that reflects well on either of them. I know Harry’s not exactly reliable on facts but he does know the palace staff and what goes on.

The review they are talking about in the judgement is the RMB - which was done yearly and looked at worst case scenarios. It was premised on the basis that these were UK risks for a royal living in the UK. Harry was planning on leaving the UK - as in fact he did - so the RMB would be redundant.