Page 16 | Harry v NGN 2

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 2025-01-23T00:40:16+00:00

I don't think we're done talking - and I never start threads! As you were!

Andtheweaselgoespop56 · 25/01/2025 15:35

TheCrowPeople · 25/01/2025 14:40

When people ask how come Rebekah Wade was acquitted, because it was a surprise at the time, I guess it was either bc the judge was satisfied that she was innocent, there wasn’t enough direct evidence to convict her, or allegedly she had friends in very high places who allegedly protected her, or others allegedly willing to take the fall. Or an alleged combination of the above.
Who knows if we will ever know?

It was a jury trial, @Andtheweaselgoespop56. Details are in this succinct article of what she was charged with and acquitted of, from the BBC.

Did the judge direct the jury in any specific way, do you know? It seems like a lifetime ago now, but yet still so relevant given the ongoing Met scandals.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27997688#:~:text=Mrs%20Brooks%20was%20found%20not,pervert%20the%20course%20of%20justice

Thanks for this TheCrowPeople I had forgotten it was a jury trial tbh!

I think it’s a little easy to blame RB’s acquittal on a jury quirk though Serenster

I’ve served on a jury and our decisions were made solely based on the evidence presented to us!

MrsLeonFarrell · 25/01/2025 15:39

Andtheweaselgoespop56 · 25/01/2025 15:26

Thanks for the lesson on how the upper echelons function Serenster .

I think you have just set out a fairly comprehensive argument for Republicanism right there.

It may be inevitable, but this notion of establishment with a capital E is still difficult to reconcile in the modern world; still less does it address these clear links between the Establishment and the media and vice versa.

Also, I think the connections listed below are a little more direct than circling in the same room together.

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The problem is that you only have to look at the US to see that Establishments exist whether you have a monarchy or not. It seems to be human nature to create hierarchies and wealth inequality and I'm not sure how to avoid that.

Andtheweaselgoespop56 · 25/01/2025 15:39

More info here:

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/special_reports/phone-hacking.pdf

Original poster

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 25/01/2025 15:42

Andtheweaselgoespop56 · 25/01/2025 13:33

I wasn’t making any particular suggestion about Camilla, Piers Morgan and Jeremy Clarkson back when the phone hacking offences were committed in that particular post. I was referencing Camilla mingling with Clarkson and Morgan at
the famous lunch after which Clarkson wrote his famous vile piece about Meghan for which he had to apologise.

However, I know Clarkson is a long-time friend of Camilla’s son, Tom Parker Bowles, and that’s how Jeremy and Camilla were introduced.

However, Jeremy Clarkson is also a member of the so-called Chipping Norton Set, see Wikipedia which included;

Racehorse trainer Charlie Brooks and his wife Rebekah Brooks (née Wade), former editor editor of The Sun and News of the World, now CEO of News UK. Charlie was introduced to Rebekah by Jeremy Clarkson.

Btw I think notable other members were Elisabeth Murdoch and it was reported that David Cameron was also a friend of the group.

So there is the connection above.

So funny you should ask those questions mainecooncatonahottinroof

And 😀 that posters have been laughing about the Ross Kemp connection but he was a childhood friend of Guy Black (then Chairman of the Press Complaints Commission) whose partner was Mark Bolland.

Mark Bolland was the PR guru who was responsible for rehabilitating Camilla’s image around that time.

This Guardian article explains more:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2002/jan/17/pressandpublishing.themonarchy

Mark Bolland and Guy Black (friend of Kemp) were both allegedly friends of Rebekah Wade and the three used to holiday together.

“The fact that could cause most problems is that the two have holidayed with the News of the World editor, Rebekah Wade, and her partner, Ross Kemp. The actor and Mr Black were childhood friends.”

Yes you read that right; Kemp, then married to Wade, was a childhood friend of the then chairman of the Press Complaints Commission, Guy Black, who is the husband of Charles & Camilla’s former PR guru, Mark Bolland.

And funnily enough, at that time, Kemp was an ambassador for Camilla’s Royal Osteoporosis Society.

There are lots of photos of Camilla & Charles greeting Rebekah Wade and Ross Kemp at various events if you Google.

According to Wikipedia:
In 1999 … actor Ross Kemp lent his support in launching the charity's Bone Friendly Logo, raising awareness of products beneficial to bone health.

So you can all laugh about this but the connections are there. Make of them what you will.

Edited

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They were clearly all ganging up on Harry... 🙄

Impressive digging!

OP posts:

TheCrowPeople · 25/01/2025 15:45

Serenster · 25/01/2025 14:59

I also remember that everyone declined to call Piers Morgan as a witness - both prosecution and defence, presumably because no-one thought anything he said could be trusted. 🤣

Crikey yes, thanks for the reminder.

To my mind, one of the most entertaining moments of the last couple of years was the reported story that Eugenie and Beatrice had enjoyed a very friendly lunch with Piers Morgan in Notting Hill - and the reaction on sites like Celebitchy (both the posts and the BTL comments).

Just had a quick Google and this looks pretty typical.

https://www.celebitchy.com/814418/princess_eugenie_beatrice_went_to_a_notting_hill_pub_with_piers_morgan/

Cele|bitchy | Princess Eugenie & Beatrice went to a Notting Hill pub with Piers Morgan

Celebitchy is a daily gossip and entertainment blog, started in 2006, which also focuses on liberal politics, royal coverage and fashion.

https://www.celebitchy.com/814418/princess_eugenie_beatrice_went_to_a_notting_hill_pub_with_piers_morgan

FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger · 25/01/2025 15:46

JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 14:42

You do know it is impossible for one person to totally hold every corrupt journalist to account? If you were really expecting Prince Harry to do that, you were always going to be disappointed.

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He hasn't held a single corrupt journalist to account though, has he. Which was his stated aim.

Original poster

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 25/01/2025 15:48

Andtheweaselgoespop56 · 25/01/2025 15:26

Thanks for the lesson on how the upper echelons function Serenster .

I think you have just set out a fairly comprehensive argument for Republicanism right there.

It may be inevitable, but this notion of establishment with a capital E is still difficult to reconcile in the modern world; still less does it address these clear links between the Establishment and the media and vice versa.

Also, I think the connections listed below are a little more direct than circling in the same room together.

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Do you really think that there would no longer be elite circles if there was no monarch? That's pretty naive!

@Serenster - great post!

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Original poster

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 25/01/2025 15:50

Andtheweaselgoespop56 · 25/01/2025 15:35

Thanks for this TheCrowPeople I had forgotten it was a jury trial tbh!

I think it’s a little easy to blame RB’s acquittal on a jury quirk though Serenster

I’ve served on a jury and our decisions were made solely based on the evidence presented to us!

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Do you think all juries are the same?!

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JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 15:56

@FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger I literally posted what Harry said and you are still misquoting.

Harry got a wide ranging apology and NGN admitted that free lance journalists they employed for the Sun, acted illegally. That is an important admission whether you choose to recognise it or not.

JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 15:59

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 25/01/2025 15:50

Do you think all juries are the same?!

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I know they are not. A man I worked with was on a long jury trial for a very serious case. He admitted when he returned to work that he just voted not guilty with some others, because he was desperate for the deliberation to be over. His vote made it a narrow majority.

TheCrowPeople · 25/01/2025 16:01

I think the reason there aren't more mild-mannered republicans (like me!) in the UK is they're concerned we'd get The Establishment all over again, but a in a more venally political form like Tony Blair, or some sort of populist like Alexander 'Boris' Johnson, or a worse nutjob with more £millions than principles.

The Royal Family so far has managed to maintain a facade of training up the heir, duty, and suitable levels decorum in the immediate line of succession, just enough to compare favourably with the more political or populist possibilities. And I accept it'll stay that way while those vibes are out there.

Had Andrew or Harry been born first ... then who knows? Although I daresay they may have been reined in and sat on a bit better than they were.

Original poster

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 25/01/2025 16:03

JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 15:59

I know they are not. A man I worked with was on a long jury trial for a very serious case. He admitted when he returned to work that he just voted not guilty with some others, because he was desperate for the deliberation to be over. His vote made it a narrow majority.

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What was the point in your post then, if you know they don't all operate in the same way?!

Your colleague had very poor integrity!

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TheCrowPeople · 25/01/2025 16:05

JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 15:56

@FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger I literally posted what Harry said and you are still misquoting.

Harry got a wide ranging apology and NGN admitted that free lance journalists they employed for the Sun, acted illegally. That is an important admission whether you choose to recognise it or not.

NGN offers a full and unequivocal apology to the Duke of Sussex for the serious intrusion by The Sun between 1996 and 2011 into his private life, including incidents of unlawful activities carried out by private investigators working for The Sun.

... It is also acknowledged, without any admission of illegality, that NGN's response to the 2006 arrests and subsequent actions were regrettable.

This is what I'm reading.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20pqqx57pwo

Britain's Prince Harry, Duke of Sussex steps out of a car, outside the Rolls Building of the High Court in London, Britain June 7, 2023

Sun owner News Group Newspapers's full apology to Prince Harry

News Group Newspapers gives a "full and unequivocal apology" to the Duke of Sussex.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20pqqx57pwo

MrsLeonFarrell · 25/01/2025 16:08

JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 15:56

@FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger I literally posted what Harry said and you are still misquoting.

Harry got a wide ranging apology and NGN admitted that free lance journalists they employed for the Sun, acted illegally. That is an important admission whether you choose to recognise it or not.

I'm glad he got a settlement and an apology but it's important to be accurate. NGN admitted that freelance private investigators acted unlawfully, not illegally. It seems like hair splitting here, but in law these technical details are important in terms of whether anything can be pursued further.

They didn't admit anything that they hadn't admitted before. Just included his mum in the apology which is rightly important to him.

JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 16:13

You are right they said unlawfully, not illegally. You are wrong to say they are not admitting anything new. They have never admitted and unlawful behaviour in relation to The Sun. And if you think they have, please provide me with a link.

pelargoniums · 25/01/2025 17:04

TheCrowPeople · 25/01/2025 16:01

I think the reason there aren't more mild-mannered republicans (like me!) in the UK is they're concerned we'd get The Establishment all over again, but a in a more venally political form like Tony Blair, or some sort of populist like Alexander 'Boris' Johnson, or a worse nutjob with more £millions than principles.

The Royal Family so far has managed to maintain a facade of training up the heir, duty, and suitable levels decorum in the immediate line of succession, just enough to compare favourably with the more political or populist possibilities. And I accept it'll stay that way while those vibes are out there.

Had Andrew or Harry been born first ... then who knows? Although I daresay they may have been reined in and sat on a bit better than they were.

The discourse around “thank goodness William was first and not Harry!” is so funny, because it ignores the part of why Harry is so dysfunctional, and they all are. And it assumes William is his image – but we were all fooled by the palace PR that Harry was a cheeky party prince, he’d left the Nazi costume and naked vegas days behind and was a good, fun-loving chap. He ripped off the mask and showed that was just his image - we have no idea if William’s secretly awful. And no way of knowing how each would have turned out if Harry had been heir and Wills the spare.

andIsaid · 25/01/2025 17:08

TheCrowPeople · 25/01/2025 08:30

Indeed, NGN pushed back hard on this in its own statement of apology.

They are also pushing back in an (under-reported) fashion against the post-settlement statements made by or on behalf of the claimants and others.

See, for example, the closing paras of this Guardian article.

A spokesperson for NGN said: “It must also be stressed that allegations that were being made publicly pre-trial (and indeed post-settlement) that News International destroyed evidence in 2010-11 would have been the subject of significant challenge at trial.

“These allegations were and continue to be strongly denied. Extensive evidence would have been called in trial to rebut these allegations from senior staff from technology and legal.”

I think the Mail (AN) are planning to rebut similar allegations in court, if and when the time comes.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/24/police-request-transcripts-from-prince-harry-case-against-owner-of-the-sun

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“These allegations were and continue to be strongly denied. Extensive evidence would have been called in trial to rebut these allegations from senior staff from technology and legal.”

And yet, here they are with the opportunity of a life time, where they can bring all the evidence from the statement above, and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that PH is a vengeful, hyperbolic, liar.

And yet, they...settle?

andIsaid · 25/01/2025 17:11

NoDragons · 25/01/2025 09:33

NGN capitulated & Harry got everything he wanted, the case is settled.

NGN wanted to settle. Harry wanted to go to court.

Harry scorned people that settled and wanted to 'slay the dragons'

He waved a white flag.

Now.
I think Harry should have settled, I'm glad he has got damages and an apology. But it is disingenuous to say Harry got everything he wanted.

Do you wonder why the NGN settled ?

TheCrowPeople · 25/01/2025 17:12

andIsaid · 25/01/2025 17:08

“These allegations were and continue to be strongly denied. Extensive evidence would have been called in trial to rebut these allegations from senior staff from technology and legal.”

And yet, here they are with the opportunity of a life time, where they can bring all the evidence from the statement above, and prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that PH is a vengeful, hyperbolic, liar.

And yet, they...settle?

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Yes.

These actual facts of what NGN really said are Harry's material reality now, whether he accepts it or not. Must be tricky one for his 'global' chief of staff, head of communications, and PR team.

andIsaid · 25/01/2025 17:22

MrsFinkelstein · 25/01/2025 13:05

@Daddybegood

As it was Harry who approached NGN in the last couple of days about a settlement offer, I'm not sure how far NGN "capitulated". Their offer had been on the table all along, it may not have substantially changed (up or down) from what was already there. The public apology IMO was what Harry "won" on, even then it says less than it appears to.

Why did they settle though?

Think of the articles they could have written had they gone to trial.

Original poster

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 25/01/2025 17:23

pelargoniums · 25/01/2025 17:04

The discourse around “thank goodness William was first and not Harry!” is so funny, because it ignores the part of why Harry is so dysfunctional, and they all are. And it assumes William is his image – but we were all fooled by the palace PR that Harry was a cheeky party prince, he’d left the Nazi costume and naked vegas days behind and was a good, fun-loving chap. He ripped off the mask and showed that was just his image - we have no idea if William’s secretly awful. And no way of knowing how each would have turned out if Harry had been heir and Wills the spare.

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Well you can only judge on what you see and there's no evidence to suggest that he's awful. He appears to have a happy marriage and family. He is affable in public and he's been brought up to understand and accept the role he will one day fill.

I think Harry might have been a bit different if he had been the eldest, because he would have had that 'schooling' in preparation for being king. I don't see how it would have changed his nature or personality though, plus he's not very bright. He wouldn't have been holding the level of resentment and jealousy though, which has clearly motivated him throughout his life. It would have been a bit tricky though if he had run off to America!

OP posts:

Original poster

mainecooncatonahottinroof · 25/01/2025 17:25

andIsaid · 25/01/2025 17:11

Do you wonder why the NGN settled ?

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I'd say for 2 reasons, one, economic reasons and two, they had something to hide.

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FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger · 25/01/2025 17:25

JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 15:56

@FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger I literally posted what Harry said and you are still misquoting.

Harry got a wide ranging apology and NGN admitted that free lance journalists they employed for the Sun, acted illegally. That is an important admission whether you choose to recognise it or not.

Ok, what are their names?

FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger · 25/01/2025 17:28

JoyousGreyOrca · 25/01/2025 15:59

I know they are not. A man I worked with was on a long jury trial for a very serious case. He admitted when he returned to work that he just voted not guilty with some others, because he was desperate for the deliberation to be over. His vote made it a narrow majority.

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I hope that serious case didn't involve the destruction of someone's life. Otherwise, your colleague is a complete cunt.

andIsaid · 25/01/2025 17:31

FromTheOfficeOfJammyTodger · 25/01/2025 15:46

He hasn't held a single corrupt journalist to account though, has he. Which was his stated aim.

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And yet, here we are, discussing corrupt journalism.