Should the Royal Family have to declare gifts

[Polka83]

I would be interested in people thoughts. Should the royal family have to declare gifts made by other states?

There is a Guardian article which says royal family agreed to declare gifts received over the last 4 years but they have failed to do so.

I understand that the royals will receive gifts from friends which don’t need to be declared, but what about gifts from other heads of states? It is unlikely that these gifts would come to the royals if they were commoners.

There are strict rules in how the royals should handle these gifts and if they belong to the state rather than personally by individual royals. For example, the Duchess of Sussex got £500,000 earrings from Saudi Arabia. How can we check if these rules are being followed unless they declare them?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/12/buckingham-palace-published-list-official-gifts-royal-family-king-charles

As a republican, I have always felt it was about the long game.

Support for the monarchy over the long term is dropping and the younger you are, the less likely you are to support it

https://www.statista.com/statistics/863893/support-for-the-monarchy-in-britain-by-age/

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-66707923

It may not happen in my lifetime but I do think it will eventually

@wordler don't feel sorry for us, we're not worshipping people who couldn't care less about us

Worshipping sounds a tad hyperbolic, no?

There wouldn't have been much in the way of gifts, either as so many engagements were cancelled or sharply scaled back.

And the issue here is not so much the substance - it's the speed of publication, and that (possibly) a handful appear not to be in the record at all. Which is just as likely to be clerical error as it is wilful wrongdoing by one or more members of the RF.

Items in the royal collection are regularly put on public view, in the palaces which are open to the public, and by loans to other institutions and special exhibitions.

Hasn't it that been the picture for many decades now?

Something in the back of my mind has it that there was markedly less support for the monarchy amongst the u30s in the 1960s and 1970s. Which should mean now much lower support in those age roughly 60+ Which is obviously not the case.

So something is happening that is changing people's minds over the value of a constitutional monarchy over the course of their lifetime.

I thought that the Waleses paid for their and the DC's clothing.

Wasn't that reportedly one of MM's disappointments - that she could not accept items from designers?

I think the picture is overall decline in support for the monarchy - not just younger people being more sceptical and then changing their mind.

This sort of chart shows it https://natcen.ac.uk/news/british-social-attitudes-support-monarchy-falls-new-low

There was a 'policy' drawn up in 1995 regarding declaration of gifts, and the policy was updated in 2003 (after the Paul Burrell debacle)

And how convenient that Burrell's activities could take the blame, when it was at a similar time that Fawcett was fencing royal gifts

But then Burrell was seen as "Diana's man" and it served as a useful distraction to what Charles's choice was up to ... after all we can't have blame attaching itself to the heir when someone else is available can we?

To be honest, I am surprised why anyone, regardless of whether they are a republican or a monarchist, would be happy with the Head of State just accepting gifts from anyone with no proper record. Surely in the interest of self protection there should be a record?

Our mayor has caused a huge uproar by accepting gifts.

It is in the rf's interest to update the database and then maintain it just so they can avoid this issue. One less area of criticism.

That's been the Republican mantra for at least the last 40yrs.

Support amongst young people has always been low. Yet support builds in the over 40s, that's been the stats for as long as I can remember.

Maturity changes your viewpoint on many things.

https://natcen.ac.uk/news/british-social-attitudes-support-monarchy-falls-new-low

@MrsLeonFarrell it's not just that.

Sorry should have tagged @MrsFinkelstein

Yeah, Charles funded them out of the Duchy of Cornwall, now William has access to it.

The Cambridge's (now Waleses).have never accepted gifts of clothing from companies. I'd be interested to see the poster's source for that claim.

I think you meant to tag @MrsMrsFinkelstein

I don't understand this either.

I intellectually understand supporting the monarchy over an elected head of state.

I don't understand being such a royalist that I would come up with excuses for a lack of transparency

@MrsFinkelstein "The Cambridge's (now Waleses).have never accepted gifts of clothing from companies. I'd be interested to see the poster's source for that claim"

I'm not doubting you-but how do you know?

I think they do buy the clothes we see them in on engagements - I’ve seen interviews with designers talking about assistants coming in and buying stuff and then the designer not knowing if they would be worn and being excited when they were.

The gifted stuff I think I mentioned because it’s in the past lists published on the website - it’s not from companies rather members of the public on those walkabouts they do. Apparently some people have given them
things like cardigans or handbags!

And sports teams always seem to give the Wales kids team shirts with their names on.

For example in this list of gifts William got in New Zealand on a tour it includes ‘a tie and scarf’ ‘three pens’ and very oddly ‘a power bank’

www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/the_duke_of_cambridge_-_new_zealand_april_2019.pdf

And Meghan and Harry in Morroco got things like shoes, tea towels, cushion covers etc from individuals.

https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/theduke_and_duchess_of_sussex-_morocco_february_2019.pdf

Edited to add that glancing at Anne’s list - hers is long because of all her engagements - members of the public have sent all sorts to her through the pair including costume jewelry and jigsaws!

It must be quite the archive really in terms of recording, storing (or gifting onwards). I did smile at the Queen (EII) being gifted a silver cutlery set in 2019...am sure there was a cultural connection that was meaningful but no-one would ever imagine 'I'm sure she's probably lacking some knives and forks, that one". But presumably, it would be archived but perhaps brought out when the giftee (Indian delegation I seem to recall) or others from giftee country visited BP - bit like when you have to put your babies in every romper suit they're gifted so no offence ever taken

That's exactly why it's obvious to me that the gifts are being recorded because otherwise it would be a nightmare to remember who gave what when they need to host the foreign dignitaries again. The issue is they haven't published the lists on the royal family website since 2019. I think they should do - as you see they are quite interesting to peruse.

I guess if an official representative of the government office who checks on Crown stuff (maybe the ones who have oversight of the Sovereign Grant) asked to see the internal lists they would be able to. But the public should see these lists as well.

The Canadian millionaire Galen Weston paid all of Charles's polo bills,for years. This also trickled down to William and Harry naturally.
If anyone should be looked into, it should be Hassanal Bolkiah Muiz'zaddin Wad'daulah (Sultan of Brunei)
The ties of both these families are extremely entwined. Jewellery specifically.

Do you know what the actual question was that the Palace returned “No comment” to though? It’s very easy to twist words.

Why would anyone need to 'twist words' if legitimate ownership of artefacts can be easily established?

From the guidelines I posted upthread:

Gifts offered by commercial enterprises in the UK should normally be declined, unless they are offered as a souvenir of an official visit to the enterprises' premises, to mark a Royal marriage or other special personal occasion. When gifts are accepted, the consent of the Member of The Royal Family should be contingent upon the enterprise undertaking not to exploit the gift for commercial purposes.

Accepting clothes and accessories as gifts clearly could be used to promote the business (eg the company posts a photo of the Royal family member wearing the gifted clothes on Instagram. So if the companies do this - and some regularly do - I’d assume the items were bought at the normal price).

They can accept gifts from individuals if they are less than £150. This would cover most of the walkabout type gifts, I would have thought. Like the star earrings Kate was given to raise money for a mental health charity, designed by a mother whose daughter had died by suicide. Kate has subsequently worn them, so clearly she kept them.

That is true but the royal family also do not allow for an inventory to be made public of gifts that have been received.

“What information is available about the official gifts received?
Very little. Every year, the palace publishes a list of the gifts received in the previous year, but it deletes older information at the same time. There is no public database of official gifts, making them almost impossible to trace without the cooperation of the palace.“

They haven’t published the list for the last 4 years and nor is it possible to check whether those jewels referred to in article have been added to lists previously.

Why is the process not more transparent and why is there not the expectation of “co-operation”?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/07/what-are-the-rules-on-gifts-for-the-royal-family