The Kents

[Belindabelle]

Just looking at the official coronation photograph of the modern slimmed down monarchy.

I see the Duke of Kent. I know his wife the Duchess (my favorite) retired from public life some years ago.

What happened to prince and princess Michael of Kent. I know they were at the coronation but how come the Duke outranks them and they are not part of the new firm.

Can anybody explain.

It depends on how the particular family does things. And William very much considers the Middleton his family.

My brother invited my in laws to his wedding, so the Middleton's being invited isn't unusual at all to me.

Was Lady Helen there? Duchess of Kent's daughter? I'm old enough to remember her frequently being in the papers and I'm sure her nickname was Melons!

Your children are second cousins to the children of your first cousins.

@90stalgia

The Middletons are the grandparents, aunt and uncle of a future king, and the immediate family of the future queen. I think it would be very strange if they were not in attendance.

Yes, she was. I saw a pic of her with James Ogilvy going in.

I'm possibly [very] slightly too young to remember the nickname, but I certainly remember her being in the media.

When I was a youngster in the late 80s and 90s, my aunt had Hello magazine delivered every week, and, I think, in a world before reality TV stars and influencers, the main content was royalty and aristocracy with a scattering of Hollywood stars. And I don't think she ever read an article but we'd flick through and critique the clothes. It's the only reason I know who any of them are!

It was good that the 2nd cousins came on their own and not with spouses and children etc because I would have not been able to pick them out so easily!

Well, Edward and Sophie's children have nothing in for them, do they? They will be needed during their 20s and 30s - exactly the time they would be establishing a career, if they want to, or possibly their own family, or just having fun and exploring life. Then, if they do give those years the The Firm, they will be superseded by the Wales children as they grow up and (presumably) take their place in the hierarchy.

Which is exactly what has happened to the Kents and Gloucesters - and basically why the RF have ignored all comments about “hangers on” etc and have made sure the Queen covered rents etc for them.

If you expect people to give up their ‘normal’ working lives to be full time royals (The Gloucesters for example - married July, expecting to be normal architect and attend a few parties as cousin of the Queen, then brother killed August and father dead two years later so future changed to full time royals in the blink of an eye!) then it needs to be accepted that that has a life long impact.

The Duke of Gloucester, for example, couldn’t have taken 25 years out of his career and then hopped back into it.

I don't think James or Pippa Middleton's spouses were at the Coronation.

It would make sense to me for William ( probably when he becomes King but maybe before that) to sit down with his cousins and offer them a deal to be working royals maybe for a fixed period until William’s kids grow up or they reach retirement age. Timed around the time that Charles and Anne need to step back so only the Edinburghs left really.

Don’t get the spouses involved nor their kids - so modelled on Princess Anne. Anyone who wants to do it gets a title - Prince/ Princess and Duke/Duchess and housing and money. I think that Princess Beatrice, Princess Eugenie and Lady Louise might be up for it but Zara and Peter Phillips and James, Earl of Wessex would have the opportunity too if they wanted.

You can’t really ask people to give up their lives and careers for a set period though.

Imo you either need to include them, for good, or leave them to get on with their lives.

That’s the reason the Queen treated the Kents and Gloucesters in the way she didn’t. People can’t be expected to walk away from their jobs for 20 years and then just go back to them.

Don’t get the spouses involved nor their kids - so modelled on Princess Anne

Tim Lawrence does do the occasional solo Royal duty - eg he took the Royal Salute and reviewed the Founder's Day parade of the Chelsea Pensioners

Founder’s Day returns to its full glory at the Royal Hospital Chelsea | Royal Hospital Chelsea (chelsea-pensioners.co.uk)

But I doubt he'll do much more than a handful of military events.

@YetMoreNewBeginnings
I totally agree William can't ask his cousins to step up for a period of time. Stepping up would be a lifetime commitment from both William and the cousins concerned.

I think the DoE is the only Royal to have retired, even at that he was about 95!

I'm curious about our "working royals" compared to those in other European countries. For example how big is the group of working royals in The Netherlands or Norway and what royal work do they do - is it the same as working royals in this country? Maybe Charles will be looking at how they operate to see if he can copy some of their practices.

In the Netherlands they have a small group of official working royals.

Atm the ones who are paid working royals are their King, Queen and Princess Beatrix, the former Queen. They get paid a stipend annually plus a budget for their engagements etc. The heir will get the same when she comes of age. If/When she marries her spouse will get that too as the spouse of the monarch and the heir are not allowed to be employed elsewhere.

The King’s brother does very occasional engagements, but not many at all. His late other brother was excluded completely as he married without permission.

The big difference is that non-working royals tend to have jobs in the civil service. I don’t think that would go down well here at all.

They have a different line of succession set up as well. The King’s brother and his children ceased to be members of the Royal House when his brother took to the throne, but are still members of the royal family and in the line of succession.

The sister of Beatrix and her children are in the line of succession (due to being the children and grandchildren of her mother, Queen Juliana), but her grandchildren are not.

The heir will get the same when she comes of age.

The Princess of Orange came of age in 2021 when she turned 18 and has assumed some public duties. I think she has said that she will defer receiving the stipend until she has finished her education and taken on full-time public duties.

What are their duties/engagements? I suppose that's the question.

Plus what is reasonable for each person to do (e.g. varied by health, having small children etc)

Once you decide those things, you can decide how many people that needs to be spread between.

The sister of Beatrix and her children are in the line of succession (due to being the children and grandchildren of her mother, Queen Juliana), but her grandchildren are not.

That is interesting @YetMoreNewBeginnings I did a Google and found this
https://www.royal-house.nl/topics/royal-house/succession-to-the-throne#:~:text=When%20a%20Dutch%20monarch%20dies,succeeds%20his%20or%20her%20grandparent.

if the monarch has no children or grandchildren, the throne passes to the descendants of his parent or grandparent, provided they are not further removed from the deceased King than the third degree of consanguinity. When Prince Willem-Alexander became King, therefore, the two oldest sons of his aunt Princess Margriet lost their right to succeed.
If no heir can be found within the House of Orange-Nassau, a successor may be appointed by Act of Parliament, which must be passed by both Houses of Parliament meeting in joint session.
Their parliament can appoint a monarch!

Their parliament can appoint a monarch!

It’s the same in the UK - as seen in 1701 when the UK parliament passed the Act of Settlement.

This provided that if Queen Anne (who was then the heir to the throne, and whose only surviving child had just died aged 10) died without an heir the throne would pass to Sophia Electress of Hanover - a granddaughter of James I and niece of Charles I, and her descendants. This cut out loads of people who were more closely related to the crown, but who were Roman Catholics, and so were barred from the line of succession. In due course Anne did become Queen, and on her death George I became the new King (and had to move over from Germany, where he’d been living until then!).

In a similar vein, it was Parliament that declared that The Commonwealth had, in effect, never existed and that Charles II had been King since the execution of his father leading to his return.

It raises an interesting question spanileeyes about what would have happened if one of the Jacobite rebellions had been successful and one of the Catholic Stuart claimants had claimed they were the rightful King. Might have been a second civil war between King and Parliament!

Frank Duke of Bavaria

Apparently, this chap would be our king if The Act of Settlement hadn’t happened.

Nice coat!

Yes there is! If you are 1st cousins with someone, then you are 1st cousins once removed with their children and they are the same relationship with your children. The children are 2nd cousins to each other.