For those of you old enough...

[sheworemellowyellow]

...was the Diana/Fergie thing as mental in the media and with the public as MN is mental about Meghan/Kate/everyone else these days?

I was a young teen and paid zero attention to the RF in the 80s. Accounting for a certain amount of frenzy due to the ease of posting on social media versus drumming up chat by way of in-person chatting, and also accounting for the near-total accessibility of online media especially tabloids, did people take these insanely fervently held anti/pro Diana/Fergie sides like they do with Meghan and Kate?

Just done one of my regular name-changes, I've had my arse handed to me on the RF forum plenty of times by the usual suspects. Have been busy with life for a while, just come back to this board and am open-mouthed by how sycophantic/defensive/accusatory/cynical some posts are. Trying to work out WHY people care so much! Is this new? Is this just the royal family wielding its influence? Was it always thus?

Yes, I agree with you. Diana was no saint and at times quite manipulative ( and sadly, manipulated)

I do wonder whether this has coloured Harry’s view of his mum too, which seems out of synch with what was said and done at the time.

Just adding in regard to the outpouring when Diana died - just so unexpected.

Although I didn't enter into the outpouring it did make me question my own mortality in a sense of ‘ if no one could save Diana’ the rest of us wouldn't stand a chance’.

I don’t really remember it being Diana vs Fergie. It was more the tabloids, women’s magazines running articles on ‘who had the best legs’ Diana or Fergie? Horrible and ridiculous comparison’s of women’s bodies. Fergie copped a hiding for getting fat post pregnancy. And there were all the rumours and images in tabloids with headlines like ‘is Diana looking sad - Charles rumours’ or ‘is Fergie expecting again?’

But we’ve reached a whole level of visciousness we didn’t see back them. Tabloids have encouraged it. And even some more legitimate media sources will go low at times Social media has certainly amplified it. I think women picked on and shamed by tabloids, for whatever reason, were better able to live it down/wait for it to pass. But with social media nothing ever is truly over, things come back to haunt people in the public eye. People are targets. And some ‘targets’ do end up killing themselves. Very very sad. And I wonder when people are going to sit in the knowledge of the damage it causes. Rather than going quiet for a while and then starting up again, often with a new target.

Social media is new obviously, and many people don’t seem to have developed a conscience about what they say. Some fancy their awful opinions are having impact, while at the same time telling themselves that what they say won’t make a difference in the scheme of things. And of course people will find their cohorts on social media. All encouraged by media which is encouraged by social media which encourages media again. Like a snake swallowing it’s own tale. Round and round, endlessly.

Anonymity has upsides and downsides. But I don’t think many people would say nasty, often untrue and uncalled for things, about someone if they had to put their true name to the post/tweet.

Yes, I agree with you. Diana was no saint and at times quite manipulative ( and sadly, manipulated)

I do wonder whether this has coloured Harry’s view of his mum too, which seems out of synch with what was said and done at the time.

Princess Anne said something in her recent interview (it’s elsewhere on the RF threads) that I think may be true for Harry William, & likely all the family members that have been there from birth. It was that she often didn’t know what were real memories of childhood or what were memories made because of photographs of occasions she was present for. That photos have formed her memories from her childhood years, and that she’s not sure to what extent.

I don’t want to put words in her mouth so I suggest watching the interview with Arsenault. Others may ‘read’ it differently.

Diana and Fergie were friends before either of them married. I don't think they were always friends but there wasn't a 'team Fergie' and 'team Diana' situation which is what you seem to have been saying.

So why did so many people lose their minds at the time of her funeral? What WAS it?

A poster on here some months ago, made the observation that before Diana died the media were really giving her a hard time. So, when she died, in an effort to stave off public censure re the way they’d recently been treating her (as well as the quickly formed opinion that media (paps) had been a cause of her death) , the media changed tack and threw everything at saying how lovely poor Di was. What a tragedy. The boys. Etc… The Queen followed normal protocol and that was seen, and pushed by media, as being ‘cold and uncaring.’ The media (mostly tabloid) whipped the public into a frenzy. Also, there’s the theory that Tony Blair used it to improve his political popularity even more than it already was. By being seen to be the one to ‘talk real’ (‘man of the people’ stuff) with the Queen and get her to break with protocol too.

The public certainly demanded more from the Queen than the usual protocol. It was interesting to watch the public bend the Monarch to its will as a result. But still, a lot of public expectation was influenced by media.

Also, Charles - not sure how he managed it, but he came out of it all quite well. Being the man - the ex husband - who went to Paris with Diana’s sisters to bring back her body was seen as being thoughtful and sensitive on his part (although there were detractors, of course).

I think Diana’s young brother, Earl Spencer, obviously grief stricken, was also stirred up by the frenzy, when he made the promise in Westminster Abbey about protecting the boys. And it v well could have been my imagination but the royal family seemed quite chastened.

Personally I think Diana & Sarah had a harder time from the media then than seen now. Media chasing them. Sarah - Duchess of pork - she wasn’t of course. But they were friends until pp says the verucca incident. Social media obviously wasn’t around.

I don’t think either woman has experienced the same type of harassment whatever some people think. I suspect they are a lot younger than me though.

Diana’s death as someone said a strange time. We had a wedding on the day of her funeral & lots of people didn’t go ‘out of respect’! Can you imagine anything so bonkers? Also people asking the family, if they were going to cancel the wedding? Just sheer madness.

Diana and Fergie were friends before either of them married. I don't think they were always friends but there wasn't a 'team Fergie' and 'team Diana' situation which is what you seem to have been saying.

I never git the impression that they were competitive towards each other for example. Fergie seemed to accept that Di would always be the star of the show...

got, not git 😁

There was no Diana v Fergie thing for a start. They were friends, as others have said.

Diana, in the immediate weeks before her death was starting to be portrayed in the news as if she'd gone completely tonto. The self-publicity -documentary/Andrew Morton/walking through minefields in cream Armani jeans did start to polarize people I think. On the one side the Camilla haters defending their wronged beauty, on the other, the people who today hate Meghan for her self-publicity and speaking out of turn. (I always think Harry is doing no more or less than his mother did with his lashing out tbh)

Her death wouldn't have been exploited these days in the way it was then, despite social media. SM is the echo chamber of people that nobody listens to beyond their own circle. Back then bogstandard telly had the monopoly so Tony Blair got his platform.

It would still have been shocking obviously, famous person dies young because her driver was lathered. Perhaps these days, amidst all the other bollocks we read in SM and the redtops we'd be quicker, when Paul "it's all about me" Burrell claimed to get in the coffin and stroke her clothes or whatever it was he reckoned he did in the week leading up to the funeral.

I'd agree with all of this.

I was staying with friends and Earl Spencer's speech was certainly the most "bloody hell" part of the day. I often wonder how much of that was actually him, and how much the rest of the Spencers. There were difficult connections between them all after all. From Robert Fellowes working for the Queen, both sisters having had relationships with Charles etc.

Thinking about the Spencers there was all the hatred of Raine as well, fired up by the tabs prior to Charles and Diana's wedding whilst Frances Shand Kydd was portrayed as the wronged woman, despite it having been her who'd gone off with another bloke leaving her children. Plus ça change I suppose.

Will probably get shot down by this but I also don’t think either of the boys would have married their wives. You are shaped by your childhood. William went for someone who wouldn’t rock the boat & Harry went for someone who he could create a victim status with.

I don't think you'll get shot down.

William learned from his father's initial mistake in marrying a woman almost young enough to be his daughter, that he'd met half a dozen times in his life before the engagement, Harry emulated his mother by choosing someone arguably very similar to her.

NB: I like all of the above people inasmuch as I could ever "know" them. I do find it interesting that a lot of Meghan haters tend to not have been around when Diana did no more, and no less.

But then Diana was British establishment and white so...

The internet was definitely around to discuss Diana's death. I learned she had died due to reading a post about it on a message board. I was 7 when Diana and Charles wed. I remember it being a huge thing. I remember having some awareness of Fergie and the hard time she was given in the media. I never felt Fergie was given anywhere near the attention of Diana. I don't feel it's very different now, there are just more opportunities to engage more widely with the subject matter. We hear more opinions and the sources are different. Before the internet, different sources of information were much more prominent, in my memory anyway.

But we’ve reached a whole level of visciousness we didn’t see back them. Tabloids have encouraged it. And even some more legitimate media sources will go low at times Social media has certainly amplified it. I think women picked on and shamed by tabloids, for whatever reason, were better able to live it down/wait for it to pass. But with social media nothing ever is truly over, things come back to haunt people in the public eye. People are targets. And some ‘targets’ do end up killing themselves. Very very sad. And I wonder when people are going to sit in the knowledge of the damage it causes. Rather than going quiet for a while and then starting up again, often with a new target.

Yes totally agree. Social media has really changed things. People are always looking for their next target.

The public certainly demanded more from the Queen than the usual protocol. It was interesting to watch the public bend the Monarch to its will as a result. But still, a lot of public expectation was influenced by media.

Yes the press really gave the Queen a hard time, even for keeping the boys at balmoral which was the right thing to do. There was a growing demand almost, to see them. I found it all rather creepy how there were such demands and pressure on them, the whole family, and the public wanting to see the boys was too much for me.

We only had newspapers then, but yeh their friendship was reported on. But their outfits were compared. Their figures were compared. When they fell out, it was pinned on Fergie at first because she made a comment on TV about having caught a verucca from Diana's shoes. But then over time I think the narrative shifted a bit to Diana cutting people off.

Diana and Fergie were genuinely friends to begin with though. I can imagine they would have generated a lot of online discussion if sm had existed at the time!

Wow, that is true. But in W&K's case, they're in that boat together so it seems to work for them. They're not victims. I think he made a good choice and understands that it was her choice too.

I think we have to remember that a large part of Megan’s ‘problem’ is cultural. She’s American and I can speak from experience to the difficulties of an American trying to settle in England. Add to that the vicious press and the RF. Recipe for failure

I agree with posters remembering the coverage of Sarah and concluding that Meghan has had an easier ride of it in the press than Fergie got. I'd forgotten that Sarah was perceived to have struggled with her weight. Looking back on pictures of her, she wasn't even overweight really, Just, not ''thin''. But in my 20s I thought she was 'fat', fat for her role I guess. Like it was her job to be thin. But Diana had an eating disorder and there were headlines when her shoulder blades or arms looked too thin. Be THIN!!! No, not that thin!! At least that body scrutiny has died down a bit. Fergie had a rough ride in the media. Surprised that Eugenie didn't spell this out to MM.

I found it appalling that public pressure led the Queen to come back to London with the boys... without that happening, maybe the walking behind the coffin might not have happened.
Public popularity is very important to them. Let's see how far that goes after the Coronation.

fergie was indeed slaughtered
and after the divorce diana was also slaughtered

Yes, it was truly awful, and not as snide and insidious as now.

You’d just get an unflattering picture of Fergie with DUCHESS OF PORK slapped above it.

Hideous.

I agree with posters remembering the coverage of Sarah and concluding that Meghan has had an easier ride of it in the press than Fergie got.

I don’t think that’s true at all, Fergie didn’t have as many articles a day written about her or a ‘Fergie watch’ to monitor her every move. She also didn’t have to deal with racism. She had an awful time, but Meghan had the extra issue of racism and not being British too. I think social media would have been very hard on Fergie and Diana.

I don't remember there being a "Fergie vs Diana" thing amongst normal (for a given range of normal, as Terry Pratchett might have said) people.
Fergie certainly got bad publicity in the media - after the initial honeymoon period of the engagement and wedding - and her looks and fashion sense, then, subsequently, the toe-sucking pictures.
I don't think people had intense discussions as to whether Fergie or Diana was "best" or who had been treated worse.

It's only since the advent of social media that I've come across a small group of people who almost seem to define themselves by being Team Meghan or Team Kate and find everything to do with their heroine perfect, and everything to do with their anti-heroine vile.

I've said before that I don't know anyone irl who gives any of the RF much thought. At a wedding I went to a week after Queen Elizabeth II died, there was a toast to the new king. But there wouldn't normally have been a toast to the monarch - it was just all so recent.

If anything, had Diana lived, I think the best comparison to the Kate/Meghan thing would have been her and Camilla.
Generally, Diana was starting to be seen and/or portrayed as very attention seeking and a bit...well, silly for want of a better word. It's hard to know how things would have gone over the years if she hadn't died while young and beautiful in tragic circumstances and became the sainted figure she did.