Monarchy as head of social hierarchy?

[CampsieGlamper]

If we consider the class system in the UK, as upper, middle and working, even if we divide middle into three, working into two and create a "benefit recipient class" , it follows that the monarchy is at the top. This class system and the monarchy's position is a strong arguement by republicans and other opponents to the retention of a monarchy.

Does the monarchy or the aristocracy impact on your life though? If they do, is it a generally positive or negative impact?
We owned a cottage where our lawyer advised us of a clause (not enforceable) that DH was compelled to provide military service to the Earl of Mar if summoned!
My sister's landscape gardener has worked and lived on estates - two owned by dukes, one by a foreign magnate and one by a hedge fund. The dukes were by far the better employers.

I’m not sure the hoary old ‘old money treats the staff better than the nouveau riches’ chestnut adds anything to the argument either way.

I do think that having a family in a position of power and wealth purely because of their bloodline is frankly ridiculous and anachronistic, and should be dismantled sharpish — on the other hand, I’m depressed by the extent to which discussions about replacing the monarchy with an elected ceremonial HoS on here evidence political illiteracy, with the same nonsense being trotted out about ‘We don’t want a President Trump/Johnson!’ suggesting a total failure to understand the difference between a largely ceremonial HoS (who would not need to be a politician at all, but could be someone with a record of public service and broad support) and the role of PM, or a US-style President with political power.

But living in the UK for 25 years has shown me that as a culture there is still a broad buying into the class system, sometimes entirely unthinkingly, and that a significant number of British people have ridiculously feudal and forelock-tugging attitudes to ‘aristocracy’, and actually like being told what to do by a former Buller boy, even when venal and incompetent. (Boris Johnson, had he not been perceived with be ‘posh’, could not have existed as a political entity. See also perceptions of Jacob Rees-Mogg.)

The coronation should obviously have been scaled back to something very simple, so as not to insult a country on its knees, but again, judging by responses on here, the backroom courtiers and politicians made the right call by going down the bread and circuses route.

When it comes down to it, apparently many people would rather a ruinously expensive parade of horses, state carriages, ermine and state bling, combined with the demented soap opera of royal-watching (Is Kate too thin? Does Harry regret leaving? Is Meghan going to lead to the downfall of the Windsors? Did William shag a Norfolk neighbour?) than having a HoS they can vote for and replace every four years, or, for that matter, a low-key, transparently-funded bicycle monarchy, where ‘coronation’ means just showing up in parliament to sign a document.

Class systems abound world wide - in many countries it's based on ££££ rather than birth, but to suggest they're not class bound in their own way is untrue

'I’m depressed by the extent to which discussions about replacing the monarchy with an elected ceremonial HoS on here evidence political illiteracy, with the same nonsense being trotted out about ‘We don’t want a President Trump/Johnson!’ suggesting a total failure to understand the difference between a largely ceremonial HoS (who would not need to be a politician at all, but could be someone with a record of public service and broad support) and the role of PM, or a US-style President with political power.'

If a ceremonial HOS is elected, there will be a political cast to the outcome - I pointed out on a previous thread that David Attenborough, everyone's favourite choice for an elected HOS , is not apolitical.

If a HOS is elected by the populace, there's no reason we couldn't end up with Trump/Johnson.

The monarchy and the aristocracy do not impact my life in any appreciable way.
The rich entrepreneurs and landowners have probably provided employment for my family though the years.
The wealthy and their higher tax burden have helped pay for my personal employment over the years.

It is what it is. All countries have hierarchies. The best we can do is ensure our parliamentary representatives serve all of us.

The UK has a long and reasonably fair democratic history. We've seen the horrors of dictatorships and communism across the globe.
I'm happy to stick with the system we have.

Having to elect a ceremonial head of state would be such an expensive waste of time.

Make the RF more financially accountable.

I’m working class but work in a very middle class industry. In my experience working class people generally don’t mind the monarchy but are much more resentful of the middle classes, whereas the middle classes tend to resent upper middle class & the aristocracy and so are much more preoccupied with things like republicanism (and abolishing private schools, etc). Obviously that’s a massive generalisation but I have a theory! The class system is like a ladder so we resent the people on the rung immediately above ours, because that’s who we see blocking our exit.

I have little contact with monarchy or the landed gentry.

They can stay as long as they quit the woke lectures and we see more comforting people after disasters, planting trees, cutting ribbons and hosting foreign heads of state.

I don't know anyone who has any respect for the adulterous duo as they had for QE2. Why were two children not enough for them, who were they to say that to Diana? As for Camillas grandchildren and her Holy oil 😆 it's a mockery of that religion, I feel sorry for CoE people, all I see with them is tampons.

To be honest I don’t think many people still care about that. People get divorced it’s not a stigma these days. I don’t think the CofE are about forcing unhappy marriages on people anymore. And people are definitely against phone hacking and intercepting private calls now.

Charlie boy may get a surprise when he meets Jesus who may have other ideas.

🤷‍♀️ hardly anyone (including most Christians) is that judgemental any more, think you’re in the wrong place lol… also it’s got nowt to do with the topic, I’ve seen you preaching the exact same thing on loads of rf threads back to back. There’s probably a religion topic somewhere on MN where people want to discuss that.

I can assure you it would be considerably cheaper than funding the monarchy.

I haven't been back to back on royal threads.

You can think what you like though.

I just counted and I am on three. Back to back would be in every thread every day and I am not.

How much would it cost to fund a ceremonial head of state?

Depends. In Ireland the two last presidents have taken a voluntary pay cut and have pegged their salary to the top of the civil servant salary range. Then use of a house, state car, air transport, staff, security. Unspent money from the personal allowance goes back to the Exchequer. You can find figures online — it’s pretty transparent.

I have no idea what that amounts to in actual cash. How much does your president pay on upkeep of state buildings and state banquets, entertaining foreign dignitaries and both national and international citizens, etc? How much does the actual election of the president cost?

I can’t think of any impact on my life

I don’t think they are good for Britain as they keep us stuck in the past. at the very least I’d like them shrunk to a more informal scandie style.

Outgrabe for president!

Dunno but if you take Ireland as an presidential example it’s going to lot cheaper than our entire royal family complete with a dozen mega houses, servants, flunkies, expensive ceremonies, 1 billion art collection, security, big foreign tours and all that jazz

You say its going to be cheaper so how much does it cost for the presidential elections, running the presidents office, entertaining national and international figures, carrying out duties, upkeep of state buildings and travel? Without actual figures how can we tell?

https://president.ie/en/about/organisational-information

You made the claim. Can't you just tell me the figures?

How lazy of you.

Are you a royal perchance? 🙃

I'm not allowed to say. SO14 instructions.

I think that would be quite sad though, flogging all of our history for a few quid. And security/foreign tours for presidents would only come cheap if nobody cared about them. When the US or French President go anywhere it costs millions.

What a brilliant post thank you @Outgrabe