Question about royal family, (not about Harry/spare)

[Deadringer]

Hypothetical question, if William and Harry both died and Charles had another (legitimate) son, who would be the heir, new son or George. Just musing.

Even if hes their secret love child he was illegitimate at the point of his birth and is therefore inelligible

unless of course in a shock twist of fate it turns out camilla and Charles were alreayd married, comitted bigamy with the people they went on to marry and now he turns out to be the real heir? That would be a mind fuck!

It would make season 7 of The Crown very interesting though 🤣

Children born illegitimate are not eligible for certain aristocratic titles even if legitimated by their parents' subsequent marriage. This is the case for the Crown.

He will not supplant anyone

She wouldn’t have been Queen Mother, certainly in its current form as it basically is “Dowager Queen, Mother of the monarch” shorted down.

Like most things Royal it would have depended on a combination of family and public opinion at the time.

I doubt she would have been given any special title. Too many years would have passed, and there’s a strong chance she’d have remarried

There’s no chance that a law to accept children born illegitimate, or in a marriage not approved by the monarch, would ever be passed. And it would certainly never be backdated.

They didn’t even backdate the rule changes to the primogeniture rules (though if they’d known how much the Andrew thing was going to blow up I suspect they may have considered it to shift Anne back up the order).

Back in the 14th century, John of Gaunt, son of Edward III, married his long-time mistress, Katherine, and the four(?) children they already had were retrospectively declared legitimate. It was specifically enacted that they and their descendants (the Beauforts) could not claim the throne. BUT a few generations later, Henry VII's original claim to the throne did indeed lie in his descent from this line.

Not suggesting that anything similar would happen in the 21st century - just pointing out that illegitimacy ultimately proved no bar to the Crown on this occasion.

Henry VII's original claim to the throne did indeed lie in his descent from this line.

But it was a very tenuous claim as a result. It's one of the reasons that he married Elizabeth of York, whose claim to the throne was much stronger than Henry's, although Henry went to some pains to downplay Elizabeth's claim.

Or more recently when the monarch dies. The first time in my life (I think) when people went up one.

Apart from some minor royals who married Catholics so lost their place then, had it reinstated. Although the still can't be monarch if they convert so if William and Kate and Children all converted to RC then Harry would still be 5th in line, but would be the next King.

Interestingly Katherine of Aragon’s claim to the English throne was actually stronger as she had I think claims from both John of Gaunt’s first & second wives. Henry’s claim came from him third wife. But Henry VII claim was also decided by conquest. And he certainly needed Elizabeth of York although didn’t marry her for sometime I think.

@Deadringer i am British and I don’t get it 😂. It’s all so embarrassing that we still choose our leaders like this - should have died out decades ago. I continue to live in hope 😬.

If you convert to RC you lose your place in the line of succession.

Those who married Catholics, like Prince Michael of Kent, had their places reinstated. Those who converted, such as Lord Downpatrick (who will one day be Duke of Kent) and Lord Nicholas Windsor are excluded from the line. As are those christened Catholic as babies, such as Lord Nicholas’ children.

So if william converted and christened the children RC they’d lose their places and Harry would jump up.

So if william converted and christened the children RC they’d lose their places and Harry would jump up

They've been christened - can't be done again. It's a one-off sacrament, and the CofE and RC churches recognise each others as valid. So the DC would need to be received into the RC church (not sure how that's done for children)

But yes, as (hypothetical) Catholics, they would all be excluded from the line of succession

George is heir at the moment, because he is William’s son, but if William and Harry died, then George would go down the order and any other son of Charles would inherit

That's not how it works. George's place in the succession is secure. He can only be dropped out by death, becoming a Catholic or abdicating once he is King.

George III was the grandson of George II. He inherited the throne even though George II had another son.

No, that's completely wrong.
It's a line of succession.
As @SenecaFallsRedux , it's only very rare circumstances that would prevent George's succession.
Otherwise Edward would have precedence over William and Harry. He doesn't.

I feel like some posters need a good course of reading Georgette Heyer etc to get a deeper understanding of the male line of inheritance which is essentially a very similar principal

The older sons are always being nagged to get married and produce an heir whilst the younger sons are shipped off to the army...

If that was the case then the Duke of Gloucester would be King currently…

When George VI died his younger brother, Prince Henry Duke of Gloucester was still alive. If your suggestion was accurate he would have become King.

However, his niece Elizabeth, daughter of George VI, became Queen.

Just as George would remain in place if William died.

Not just Georgette Heyer, @ConfusedNT - just any glance at the line of succession, or basic knowledge of the 20th Century monarchs would suffice.

New son

No

If William died, then it would be George (then his HFDC - hypothetical future children) then Charlotte (her HFDC) then Louis (his HFDC) then any other HFDC of William's

Then it would be Harry, but if he died, then Archie (then his HFDC), then Lilli (and her HFDC) then any HFDC of Harry's

Then and further HFDC, born to King Charles and a new Queen (and then their HFDC)

Then it moves on to Andrew's branch of the family

Please tell me you didn't read the full thread and still post that

Oh absolutely, but the Georgette Heyer reading is for fun 😀