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Inconsistencies in Spare over hearing about Queen Mother's death

683 replies

Ridemeginger · 10/01/2023 14:52

Harry writes that he found out about the Queen Mother's passing away (in March 2002):

"At Eton, while studying, I took the call. I wish I could remember whose voice was on the other end. A courtiers I believe. I recall that is was just before Easter, the weather bright and warm, light slanting through my window, filled with vivid colours. "Your Royal Highness. The Queen Mother has died." "

News reports at the time reported he was skiing in Switzerland with Charles and William. The Queen Mother died on 30 March 2002. Easter Saturday. He wouldn't have been at school.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/622457.stm

Recollections may vary, indeed! I doubt very much Harry would have taken the call if he's been with his father.

Didn't the editors do any fact checking?

OP posts:
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Patineur · 10/01/2023 18:39

BradfordGirl · 10/01/2023 18:26

@JaneJeffer Anyone who has lost family members should know that memory over details can become confused. It is very common.

Not when we're writing memoirs for publication when we're trying to tie the account into an overall narrative about how uncaring other members of our family are. And not when we could double-check the facts by nothing more difficult than a quick Google. It's just basic common sense. I don't know why you're so desperately trying to defend this, it's pointless and it isn't working.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 10/01/2023 18:39

TBH I very much doubt he's conflating the two anyway. Margaret died in early February, there's hardly likely to be vibrant colours outside your window then.

Interestingly, while it is commonly believed that memories which are often recalled are the most accurate, the opposite is true. Current scientific thinking on memory is that each time you recall it you alter it based on the mood or situation you’re in at the time. Memory isn’t like a printed book that is unchanged no matter how often you open it. It is more like a document on a computer where each time you open it you make small changes and then save the new version. Over time it becomes impossible to tell what was the original memory and what was added and deleted (ie there’s no version history).

Merrymouse · 10/01/2023 18:39

Especially as Margaret's death may have brought up grief from his mother's death.

He says he barely knew Margaret.

If you are right and he was mixing up the two things, that might be understandable, but it also demonstrates that his memories can be unreliable.

Brefugee · 10/01/2023 18:43

Gosh, how formal. I didn't think their servants called them Your Royal Highness behind closed doors.

they curtsey and bow to each other - how do you think their staff don't have to do all the bowing, scraping and obesquious (sp?) titles?

Patineur · 10/01/2023 18:43

BradfordGirl · 10/01/2023 18:29

Harry was clearly in Switzerland. Confusion over the two deaths is the most likely explanation. Especially as Margaret's death may have brought up grief from his mother's death.

Show quote history

No, really, that is absolutely clutching at straws. Even Harry doesn't claim that hearing about the expected death of a great aunt he didn't even like put him into a fog of grief for the next six weeks so that he mixed up a skiing holiday with being at school.

Patineur · 10/01/2023 18:45

BradfordGirl · 10/01/2023 18:31

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain I apologise.

I hope you're apologising to everyone on this thread for claiming we none of us understand about death?

BradfordGirl · 10/01/2023 18:46

@Patineur I would if I had claimed that. My comment was to a specific poster.

Patineur · 10/01/2023 18:49

NewspaperTaxis · 10/01/2023 18:36

I do find the tone of the reaction to all the Prince Harry stuff very odd. I mean, who'd have thought the average Mumsnet member could be THAT interested in the Royal Family, either for or against? Or anyone really. Plenty of folk have observed how odd and eccentric the Royals are, it's been tabloid fodder for decades. What suddenly makes all these claims so different?

You could argue Diana's book threw up the same kind of stuff.

It's like a hysterical party political 'debate' with all the Brexit, Covid, face mask implications tied in, combined with a soap opera. With numerous threads going on for pages and pages.

What's strange to me is there seems to be nothing here at stake for anyone. If you think he's going to undermine the Royal Family, well, is that really so terrible? Is anyone THAT much of a fan? Perhaps they are. Even if Harry is a demented weirdo who bends the truth I'm still not quite sure why anyone is personally aggrieved, is it on their own behalf or that of the royals? @JemimaTiggywinkles

I think when someone gets as much publicity as Harry for behaving in such a peculiar way, people are bound to discuss it. What is odd is the very fact of finding that odd. I don't think people are personally aggrieved. I find the sheer crassness of it all really quite funny, but I do feel quite sorry for the targets of all his whinging (though I suspect they're finding the memes even funnier than the rest of us do).

JemimaTiggywinkles · 10/01/2023 18:49

I’m not sure why you’ve tagged me in your post @NewspaperTaxis , were you wanting me specifically to reply to your questions?

I’m posting on a fair few Harry threads at the moment because it is topical and possibly constitutionally important - his actions will certainly be recorded in history books if the scandal does manage to bring down the monarchy. I also find engaging with people online interesting and a great way to learn. I’ve found out so much about tiaras and tailoring from doing so!

HaroldsSausageInCider · 10/01/2023 18:53

NewspaperTaxis · 10/01/2023 18:36

I do find the tone of the reaction to all the Prince Harry stuff very odd. I mean, who'd have thought the average Mumsnet member could be THAT interested in the Royal Family, either for or against? Or anyone really. Plenty of folk have observed how odd and eccentric the Royals are, it's been tabloid fodder for decades. What suddenly makes all these claims so different?

You could argue Diana's book threw up the same kind of stuff.

It's like a hysterical party political 'debate' with all the Brexit, Covid, face mask implications tied in, combined with a soap opera. With numerous threads going on for pages and pages.

What's strange to me is there seems to be nothing here at stake for anyone. If you think he's going to undermine the Royal Family, well, is that really so terrible? Is anyone THAT much of a fan? Perhaps they are. Even if Harry is a demented weirdo who bends the truth I'm still not quite sure why anyone is personally aggrieved, is it on their own behalf or that of the royals? @JemimaTiggywinkles

You what? It's mumsnet gold, it's everything we talk about all rolled into one, and even better it isn't anonymous.

It has
Sibling rivalry
Family problems
NC
Step mothers
Bridezillas
Relationship
Sex
Money
Private schools
Christmas
There is even a parking issue in front of the bedroom.

Merrymouse · 10/01/2023 18:53

What's strange to me is there seems to be nothing here at stake for anyone

I fully admit that I am wasting time posting on these threads, and I have no stake in any of it at all. I just find it interesting. In all honesty I think the whole thing is bat shit crazy and they would all be better off standing down tomorrow, for their own sakes.

However it’s January, the weather is bad and discussing this is entertaining

Ryder68 · 10/01/2023 18:54

Does anyone think the RF legal team will issue a statement correcting the factual errors like Harry actually being being abroad, not at school when told of QM death or will they leave it to the press.

Merrymouse · 10/01/2023 18:54

You what? It's mumsnet gold, it's everything we talk about all rolled into one, and even better it isn't anonymous.

Yup.

H2bow · 10/01/2023 18:56

I expect it the Internet had been around when Diana was here people would have discussed her interviews and book. I suspect the reason a fair amount of people are interested in the inconsistencies is as they repeat over and over how important their truth is, and his whole premise is that this is the truth told in his own words, from his mouth. They have made literally millions from this narrative, that's why people dig deeper and are amused or whatever when it turns out that his truth is a load of shite.

SirChenjins · 10/01/2023 18:56

JemimaTiggywinkles · 10/01/2023 18:39

TBH I very much doubt he's conflating the two anyway. Margaret died in early February, there's hardly likely to be vibrant colours outside your window then.

Interestingly, while it is commonly believed that memories which are often recalled are the most accurate, the opposite is true. Current scientific thinking on memory is that each time you recall it you alter it based on the mood or situation you’re in at the time. Memory isn’t like a printed book that is unchanged no matter how often you open it. It is more like a document on a computer where each time you open it you make small changes and then save the new version. Over time it becomes impossible to tell what was the original memory and what was added and deleted (ie there’s no version history).

And presumably current scientific thinking is that consequently it’s a good idea to fact check the book you’re writing - and if you’re not sure how to use Google there’s a few people out there who do. You can even employ these people to do this and you’ll be spared from looking like a tit.

eyope · 10/01/2023 18:57

Ryder68 · 10/01/2023 18:54

Does anyone think the RF legal team will issue a statement correcting the factual errors like Harry actually being being abroad, not at school when told of QM death or will they leave it to the press.

The inaccuracies are in the press already, Mirror, Express have already talked about this one and some others.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/royals/six-prince-harry-book-claims-28907936

"It's all the drama, Mick. I just love it."

Blossomtoes · 10/01/2023 18:57

Ryder68 · 10/01/2023 18:54

Does anyone think the RF legal team will issue a statement correcting the factual errors like Harry actually being being abroad, not at school when told of QM death or will they leave it to the press.

They’ll leave it to the media I reckon. The Times has probably got a team of journalists extracting all the lies and inconsistencies ready for next Sunday’s paper.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 10/01/2023 18:57

There is even a parking issue in front of the bedroom.

But did he include a diagram in the book?!

Sagharbor · 10/01/2023 18:57

According to psychological research:

"It is a feature of human memory that we do not store information exactly as it is presented to us. Rather, people extract from information the gist, or underlying meaning."

Any inconsistencies in Harry's memoir should not be indication of lying. As humans, we change our memories so that they can become more sensible to us (McLeod, 2018).

H2bow · 10/01/2023 19:00

The royal family won’t survive this & it will be a long time before they ever manage to turn their PR around.

Why won't they? There's nothing particularly bad about them in there. His fights and sibling rivalry don't seem overly outrageous or different to lots of siblings; the swipes at Kate are minor really, if the worst he has is that she was hesitant about sharing lipgloss but did in the end, or that she was upset about being told she had baby brain then she seems decent; I doubt anyone is surprised that the British media are trash, or that the royals have a link with the media. This is the same media that portrayed harry as a likeable, cheeky chappy growing up when it sounds like he was anything but; he has admitted he doesn't see the royals as racist, and hasn't really explained in what way meghan wasn't welcomed. I don't think it'll do much damage to them really?

JaneJeffer · 10/01/2023 19:00

Any inconsistencies in Harry's memoir should not be indication of lying. As humans, we change our memories so that they can become more sensible to us (McLeod, 2018).
So why present it as truth?

JemimaTiggywinkles · 10/01/2023 19:00

And presumably current scientific thinking is that consequently it’s a good idea to fact check the book you’re writing

Scientists wouldn’t comment on such matters. It’s beneath their dignity to write books. They only write in proper peer-reviewed journals.

Ryder68 · 10/01/2023 19:02

Ah excellent! eyope and Blossomtoes.

MandyMotherOfBrian · 10/01/2023 19:02

Sagharbor · 10/01/2023 18:57

According to psychological research:

"It is a feature of human memory that we do not store information exactly as it is presented to us. Rather, people extract from information the gist, or underlying meaning."

Any inconsistencies in Harry's memoir should not be indication of lying. As humans, we change our memories so that they can become more sensible to us (McLeod, 2018).

Yes, sure. But then it can’t be called a tome of truth then can it? We literally have no idea if any of it is true - even if we’re generous and said it may not be true but it isn’t lying, it still doesn’t matter. He’s presenting it as the true story of everything that went on.

H2bow · 10/01/2023 19:03

Sagharbor · 10/01/2023 18:57

According to psychological research:

"It is a feature of human memory that we do not store information exactly as it is presented to us. Rather, people extract from information the gist, or underlying meaning."

Any inconsistencies in Harry's memoir should not be indication of lying. As humans, we change our memories so that they can become more sensible to us (McLeod, 2018).

Perhaps the bits he wasn't sure on he should have excluded then if the selling point is allegedly that this book is full of the truth to set the record straight? He does recognise a lot is not true though as he caveats as much, like the story about getting an x box a few years before it was released- why does he bother putting it in the book if he knows it's a load of crap? Very odd.