Before Diana

[PeekabooAtTheZoo]

Who was the previous Princess of Wales? Was it Elizabeth or does it only go to a spouse? Was it Queen Mary of Teck? Presumably Wallis didn’t ever have it despite marrying the last Prince of Wales before King Charles?

Edward viii.

Oops misread. Yes, Mary of Teck.

Edward was no longer Prince of Wales at the time of his marriage to Wallis.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_of_Wales

List of all holders:

Joan of Kent (husband died before ascent, became dowager PoW)
Anne Neville (became consort of Richard III)
Katherine of Aragon (when married to Arthur Tudor)
Caroline of Brandenburg-Ansbach
Augusta of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (became consort of George II)
Caroline of Brunswick (husband died before ascent, became dowager PoW)
Alexandra of Denmark (became consort of George IV)
Mary of Teck (became consort of Edward VII)
Diana Spencer (lost HRH on divorce, died before ascent of former spouse)
Camilla Shand (did not use title: became consort of Charles III)
Catherine Middleton (current)

Wallis got Duchess of Windsor.

Apparently regarded as a sullied title never to be used again which has (infuriatingly because titles just because are inherently ridiculous) made me wonder if 'Sussex' is destined to go the same way.

Sorry bogged up the formatting and that list's not right.

Hang on a sec and I'll repost an accurate one!

List of all holders:

Joan of Kent (husband died before ascent, became dowager PoW)
Anne Neville (became consort of Richard III)
Katherine of Aragon (when married to Arthur Tudor)
Caroline of Brandenburg-Ansbach (became consort of George II)
Augusta of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg (husband died before ascent, became dowager PoW)
Caroline of Brunswick (became consort of George IV)
Alexandra of Denmark (became consort of Edward VII)
Mary of Teck (became consort of George V)
Diana Spencer (lost HRH on divorce, died before ascent of former spouse)
Camilla Shand (did not use title: became consort of Charles III)
Catherine Middleton (current)

@EdithWeston that list is fascinating, I had no idea they were allowed to use it as a dowager.

For some reason DH and I were speculating last night about whether Elizabeth had ever held the title Princess of Wales and I was sure she hadn’t because it’s a spousal title due to succession rules (just like Anne is Princess Royal not Duchess of York).

I wonder if Charlotte will get Duchess of York when she’s old enough, now succession rules have changed.

@CathyorClaire Yeah, I was wondering that about Sussex, too, although they haven’t done a full abdication as they’re not really in line enough, so idk.

@NiqueNique ah that makes sense!
@MarshaMelrose Thanks, I suppose it makes it all the more of a difficult act to follow if Diana was the first one in over 50 years.

I wonder if Charlotte will get Duchess of York when she’s old enough, now succession rules have changed.

I'm no expert, but I think it's just the succession that's been changed, I don't think the way titles belong to men has changed. I don't think anyone will want York for quite a while! Presumably Charlotte will be Princess Royal in time.

Anne Neville was PoW not because she was married to the future Richard III, but because she was married to Edward the son of Heny VI and Margaret of Anjou. She was heir to the Warwick fortune so a bit of a catch, but she had a really traumatic and tragic life.

If I am honest, all those ladies haven't had it easy. Is the PoW title a bit of a curse?

I can’t get my head round PoW.
always read it as Prisoner of War…

Yes, as I said, I misread it as Prince of Wales. Sorry for the confusion.

@MarshaMelrose that wasn’t directed at you - it was in reply to the OP’s original question.

Another possible reason Elizabeth was not Princess of Wales is that she was heir presumptive rather than heir apparent. It was technically possible that her father could have had a son who would have taken her place as heir to the throne. Whereas for Charles was heir apparent once Elizabeth was Queen.

Haha. How self-centred am I, thinking it's all about me? 😳 Sorry. Again. 😄

@swearymad

that point is so interesting, I’d never thought of the queen having a brother who would leapfrog her

@swearymad oh good point. It wouldn’t have been inconceivable for Elizabeth the Queen Mother to have become pregnant again up into the 1940s and I suppose the King and Queen were preoccupied by then!

Oops no pun intended 🤭

Or for that Queen Elizabeth to have died, George VI remarried, and male heir produced

Yes, funnily enough it’s Lord Peter Wimsey who made me aware of the ‘heir presumptive’ thing - when his nephew (heir to the Dukedom) is in a car accident, he mentions that if his nephew were to have died, he (LPW) would be the heir presumptive and his nephew says ‘oh - you mean my mother might peg out and my father marry again’.

Must be easier for the RF now they have changed the succession rules!

Prince of Wales is a title conferred on the monarch's eldest son by convention, not automatically.
You wouldn't have made the eldest daughter 'The Princess of Wales' because that title would be expected to be held by her brother's wife.

Now that the law of succession has changed it'll be mildly interesting to see what happens if George has a daughter (first).

'Princess Royal' wasn't automatic either (that was a title awarded to Anne (already HRH Princess Anne at birth) in recognition of her charity work.