'Courtiers' by Valentine Low

[RandomPenguinHouse]

Extracts of this were being discussed on a previous thread ('The Times) which just finished.

I'm interested in buying this book, despite never having ever bought any other book about the Royal Family and never having watched The Crown.

I'm interested however in the archaic rituals of the Royal Court and how it works as an employer, and also how the courtiers advise.

Yes the excerpts were focused on Harry and Meghan but presumably that's just for clicks given the relevant timing, and that the book goes well beyond that.

Poignant that in the synopsis for it on The Foyles website it says:

The Queen, after a remarkable 70 years of service, is entering the final seasons of her reign without her husband Philip to guide her. Meanwhile, Charles seeks to define what his future as King will be, with his court wielding ever greater influence as he plans for his imminent accession.

www.foyles.co.uk/witem/biography/courtiers,valentine-low-9781472290908

Anyone else thinking of buying this?

@SilverLiningPlaybook

What did you think about Finding Freedom? The book was clearly virtually written by Meghan due to its flowery overly wordy style. She admitted to having cooperated with it after initially lying about that.

I have not read Finding Freedom, nor will I do so as I find Omid's writing enthusiastic but mediocre. Incidentally, I am aware what she admitted to, but I am 100 per cent convinced that the whole incident, was set up by Jason Knauf, most likely on the instructions of William, as he was rewarded with a top post afterwards.

What did you think about the recent interview she gave to the Cut?

I said on the thread I started that Meghan can be occasionally word salady and anodyne, and often does not think through the word salad muddle. I found it eye rolling and cringey in parts. That said, there is nothing in that interview that justified the vitriol. I certainly saw no "veiled threats" but only someone relieved that she was free to speak if she wanted to. The Mandela stuff was silly and unnecessary.

What do you feel about the Oprah interview?

I loved the Oprah interview because I am old enough to remember the Dimbley interview Charles gave, the Diana interview she gave to Bashir, and the Fergie Oprah interview. It is rare to get royals speaking that candidly, so I found it refreshing. I also believe that someone, or someones, made comments about Archie that could have been perceived as racist. I am black, and still experience racism in the UK in 2022, so I find it laughable that people would be so quick to dismiss racism in the UK Royal Family that for years and years confined black workers to the kitchens, and that is exempt from Race Discrimination legislation all other employers are subject to.

How do you feel about the things Harry has said about his family, and the inferences that the Queen was surrounded by dubious people?

If you believe press speculation, you will know that Angella Kelly, for instance, is not particularly popular with many of the Royal Family, so I am not surprised that Harry said what he said. Also, the problem with this family seems to be less the family itself than the many power hungry courtiers (natch!) advising and surrounding them, who seem to work on the basis that there have to be good dutiful royals and bad royals, and the bad royals are not allowed under any circumstances to shine the good. It's all very silly and as a management model, is bound to create resentment as has been seen in every generation from the Queen to William's.

The Royal Rota had nothing to do with all that did it?

Nope, but they have added fuel to fire: so you have 18 articles alone in one newspaper about Meghan's first podcast,. I mean, there is obsession, but this is on another scale: industrial hate for profit!

Yes I agree they probably all have different roles and job descriptions, I'm really using courtier as a generic term like you might use NHS workers or Local government workers.

I agree the word courtier is archaic but I do love it

Just pigeons trying to roost.

I can’t see how Meghan lying to the court could have been a set up by anyone.

If she hadn’t done it, she couldn’t have been set up. She may have thought his NDA would prevent any staff from flagging her dishonesty.

I don’t even understand why she ever denied having anything to do with Finding Freebies. They should have just called it an authorised biography and had done with it.

Perhaps they could all wear hats with feathers as they did in Wolf Hall! Wonderful book by the late Hilary Mantel

“Never play chess with a pigeon.
The pigeon just knocks all the pieces over.
Then shits all over the board.
Then struts around like it won.”

Finding Freebies.

Another typo on top of the earlier one in the thread Funding Freedom

Funding Freebies

It was in late October 21 that The Queen had a night in hospital for tests.
Soon after Remembrance Day came round and she was not able to attend - probably they only time she ever missed it (I haven't fact checked but it was not something she ever missed if at all possible). Prince Charles, William, Catherine and Camilla all looked really upset at various times during the ceremony. Fighting back tears upset, not the standard solemn Remembrance Day face.
It is my belief those tests uncovered something that was clearly going to mean a shorter life expectation than the Queen Mother's 100 years.
They have known her days were numbered since then and tried to see her through the jubilee and up to Balmoral one last time.

It's highly unlikely this information would have been shared with H&M.

I do have sympathy with H not wanting to visit at Balmoral. Firstly it's not somewhere M would ever want to go and she probably vetoed it. But for him to go there alone might have been possible. I think when they were young they had very happy holidays there but that all ended the day Diana died and I can imagine it's a house of horrors for him so he may have thought he would catch up later in the year.

Not knowing that would be unlikely to be possible.

I meant to add.

I do have sympathy with H not wanting to visit at Balmoral. Firstly it's not somewhere M would ever want to go and she probably vetoed it. But for him to go there alone might have been possible. I think when they were young they had very happy holidays there but that all ended the day Diana died and I can imagine it's a house of horrors for him so he may have thought he would catch up later in the year.

Don't you think though that we all sometimes have to do something/go somewhere that we don't want to? It's compromise - part of any healthy relationship.

Prince Charles, William, Catherine and Camilla all looked really upset at various times during the ceremony. Fighting back tears upset, not the standard solemn Remembrance Day face.
It is my belief those tests uncovered something that was clearly going to mean a shorter life expectation than the Queen Mother's 100 years

They have known her days were numbered since then and tried to see her through the jubilee and up to Balmoral one last time.

It's highly unlikely this information would have been shared with H&M.

If that's correct, and it is certainly possible as the late Queen would not want the information made public, It's sad for Harry. Not to be told about the impending demise of someone I do believe he loved and as very strong evidence that he isn't trusted.

Well yes tbh. And then taken it up with H later. We all know how humourless people who subscribe to the kind of belief system M&H do can be. I'd have kept quiet and then never bothered with them again if was so offensive. Many friendship groups probably have in jokes and long term humour that probably should have died a long time ago. It's not my job to Sort Everyone Out! I'd have also been really concerned that these were the long term friendships my husband to be cultivated and would have thought very hard about committing to him. Judge a man by the company he keeps and all that.

I’ve been away from this thread for 4.5 hours and its exploded! And taken a bit of a turn it seems going by the last few posts.

So everyone who says anything negative about her is lying ? All these people are willing to risk their reputations and livelihoods to lie about a former z lister who married well ?

Readinginthesun. We have been discussing pidgeons btw😃

I just stared at your message thinking what ? Then scrolled back ………
Sorry .

@MrsMaxDeWinter

That’s not my style.

I have never needed to resort to repeated personal attacks to make a point or engage in sensible debate like you have stooped to on this thread.

Good to see MNHQ have stepped in to put some manners on you.

And they barely spoke to each other either

On these threads there is always a core number of posters who will seemingly defend H&M to the hilt - regardless of any evidence or facts to the contrary.

I personally don't have strong views on the pair. I find them quite entertaining to be honest. I can see their good points.

There will always of course be people with axes to grind. But how can you be presented with what seems quite clear evidence of at best highly obnoxious behaviour towards staff and at worst quite vicious bullying and say it all must be lies. Everyone is lying. Even though their names are attributed to these claims.

I do wonder if some of these posters see themselves in Meghan and potentially parallels to their own lives (and maybe accusations that have been levelled at them in the past) and so a certain level of projection is going on.

I think he's had the important gain of life with the woman of his choice.

But aren't you confusing him with Sting when it comes to blabbing on about tantric sex?

I think it is an emotional reaction where some people have backed the wrong horse but their instinct is to double down in defence and denial when they see their horse losing because their compromised black and white rigid thinking patterns makes them feel humiliated to consider other alternatives or even evidence.

“Grain of truth” and “pinch of salt” are always worth having front of mind in these situations.

Many people (including myself) thought MM and the H&M combo would be a great refresh opportunity for the RF and increase the reach and any positive impact on broader communities. But are now disappointed and many changed their opinions once they saw and heard more of their words and actions “unfiltered”’ - somethings just jarred whilst other things crossed the line. Most people also have utter disgust for the overt and covert racist and misogynistic SM / tabloid media treatment which needs to be quashed but this is also not a reason not to evaluate behaviour.

Need to remember that Low is Times journalist and the extracts are from a book being published by a reputable publishing house.

They won't care about the agenda of a Royal Rota. They will care about the content being accurate and fact checked so they don't get sued by anyone referenced in the book. It will have been vetted by the publishers legal team. Anything that does not have a verifiable or credible source will be removed.

I am sure Harry and Meghan are not the only Royals who have treated their staff appallingly. Andrew is also known to treat his staff appallingly. I have heard awful stores about how Fergie talks to airline staff. I have heard a first hand source about appalling behaviour of Princess Diana towards people employed to work for her.

I applaud anyone who speaks truth to power - and I am glad that these individuals stories are being heard (and not silenced by NDAs).

Strange eh?

Respected journalists, editors and publishers getting together with several royal staff, some of them quite well known in their fields, in order to 'smear' an ex royal turned podcaster? Who has not denied the allegations?

All sounds rather conspiratorial.