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The royal family
Original poster

Grouse season starts - Royal Family shoot

111 replies

antelopevalley · 13/08/2022 21:05

Grouse shooting season starts. People who get fun out of killing birds largely bred to be shot for fun.
The Royal Family take part in grouse shoots and controversially George was present at a grouse shoot at only five years old.
Is this really a suitable leisure pursuit for the Royal Family? To shoot birds for fun?

www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/travel/controversial-royal-family-summer-holiday-tradition-starts-today-but-they-ve-been-urged-not-to-include-prince-george/ar-AA10B485?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=3ba1e30265144c75c5e573a3fa41a20e

OP posts:
Florin · 18/08/2022 19:21

Oh any vegans who think no animals are killed because of their food choices are living in a dream world, so you can eat what you want? Ummm 1000’s of pigeons and rabbits etc have to be shot. Surely best to at least eat them?

BeetleManiac · 19/08/2022 13:41

HelloMrBond · 16/08/2022 12:52

Goodness, there is so much ignorance on this thread, it’s quite incredible. Admittedly I live in the countryside and get to see the shooting industry first hand, so to some degree I can’t completely dismiss other people’s opinions on the basis that their ill informed. Likewise, I would never dream of commenting on threads, making statements that I knew little about or have simply read somewhere on social media.

In my own little way, I’ll try and alleviate some people’s concerns and misunderstandings;

  • Grouse are not reared. They are a completely wild bird which thrive on our beautiful heather moorlands.
  • Heather moorland would not exist without careful management. It would simply revert back to scrub and bracken.
  • The thousands of acres of private moorlands survive only by many millions of pounds of private funding.
  • Raptor persecution is thankfully a thing of the past. Doubtless there will still be the odd rogue keepers breaking the law, but the numbers speak for themselves. In recent years more hen harrier and merlin chicks have successfully fledged on managed grouse moors than anywhere else in the country, including rspb managed lands. This is entirely down to the hard work of the keepers creating a safe habitat.
  • Water run off creating flooding. Again, a mis used argument; moors often had drainage channels cut into them between 50 and 100 years ago to create a drier environment for sheep to graze. Again, millions of pounds of private investment has been ploughed in over recent decades to reverse this. If anyone lives near a managed moorland, I’d actively encourage them to visit. Take your binoculars and physically list the amount of diverse wildlife you’ll see, only then might you truly appreciate the tireless efforts of the keepers and moor owners.

Raptor persecution is a thing of the past

Hahahahahahahaha, how to utterly discredit yourself in 1 sentence. It most certainly is not, all the species I mentioned are regularly shot, poisoned and have their nests destroyed.

Take a look at the hen harrier and golden eagle GPS tracking data for a start... large numbers of birds just vanishing on and around grouse moors with the bodies not being recovered, way in excess of normal tag failure rates (tags are pretty reliable, except when attached to protected birds of prey... funny that).

One dead eagle even managed to come back to life after 3 days, travel several miles out to sea and throw himself off a boat. Impressive.

It's nothing to do with 'rogue gamekeepers ', they're doing the job they're paid to do.

lightisnotwhite · 22/08/2022 19:44

@BeetleManiac but the point is raptors aren’t doing badly and nor is any other species near grouse moorland. That’s the point of management and conservation.

Original poster
antelopevalley · 22/08/2022 21:05

Yes those conserving raptors are getting reasonable results in spite of their illegal persecution by landowners.

OP posts:
Ethelfromnumber73 · 22/08/2022 23:03

lightisnotwhite · 22/08/2022 19:44

@BeetleManiac but the point is raptors aren’t doing badly and nor is any other species near grouse moorland. That’s the point of management and conservation.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ibi.12886

Original poster
antelopevalley · 22/08/2022 23:12

My major concern is invertebrates. We are sleepwalking into an ecological disaster and grouse moors covering so much of our native land is not helping.

OP posts:
Ihaventgottimeforthis · 23/08/2022 15:44

ProseccoStorm · 18/08/2022 13:43

@fyn

Thank you, that was a really interesting and insightful article.

A lot has happened in the world of hen harrier brood management and upland conservation in the last decade! I wouldn't put too much store by a ten-year old opinionated letter.

Rapidtango · 23/08/2022 15:51

Your major concern is invertebrates Grin?

You do realise that the vast majority of the grouse Moors in the UK aren't owned by the Royal family but as an investment by hedge fund managers, sheikhs, businessmen, some ducal types, the chief of Persimmon and the like. Why don't you start a thread haranguing them. Or is the point of the thread not to discuss the rights and wrongs of grouse Moors, but to have yet another pop at the royal family.

Ihaventgottimeforthis · 23/08/2022 15:59

lightisnotwhite · 22/08/2022 19:44

@BeetleManiac but the point is raptors aren’t doing badly and nor is any other species near grouse moorland. That’s the point of management and conservation.

The issue is we are working from an extremely low baseline of species abundance and diversity - looking at the potential extent of blanket bog habitats and peatland as compared to the actual extent is one indicator of the impact of centuries of shoot management, whether for deer or for grouse.
We are working off a very warped perception of what we should see, and the dynamics of upland ecosystems are so complex it is very difficult to ascribe cause and effect with confidence. Indeed it seems that the primary benefit gamekeepers have is in predator control, which is in itself indicative of the dire state of the health of the population of many bird species, who are clinging on by a thread.
Hopefully we are turning a corner in the restoration of the true complexity of upland mosaic habitats, with reduced burning and draining, better control of deer pressure, reduced shooting of other mammals like Mountain Hare (fgs), a complete stop in the use of toxic lead shot being scattered all across our wildest landscapes etc etc

Original poster
antelopevalley · 23/08/2022 23:57

@Rapidtango why is the destruction of invertebrates amusing? This silent extinction will soon start causing major problems.

OP posts:
Rapidtango · 24/08/2022 10:12

It's not the destruction of invertebrates that's amusing, it's your 'concern' for their welfare. It appears that, according to you, even the mass destruction of invertebrates can be laid at the door of the royal family. Plague, pestilence, four horsemen if the apocalypse? Anything else?

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