Will Edward become the Duke of Edinburgh?

[MoonlightWanderer]

It has long been speculated that Edward would inherit the Duke of Edinburgh title, but now sources are saying that Charles may not pass it on to him after all.

Has else anyone read these news reports? Apparently Charles was asking if he could use the DoE title instead.

I suspect that many titles will be handed out if/when Charles ascends to the throne. I don't know if Edward will get the DoE title or not, but I suspect he will be given a dukedom.

I also wish I had these kinds of first-world problems, but I think it is interesting from a historical perspective.

Who are the 'Magnificent Seven' royals? Thanks!

Aroundtheworldin80moves (Fab name)

The York title stops with Andrew's death, assuming he doesn't remarry and have a son. The Monarch is then free to bestow it elsewhere, although I suspect they may want to leave it dormant for a generation. Queen Victoria didn't use it for one of her sons owing to connotations with her Hanoverian uncles.

Magnificent Seven . I Think Charles, Camilla, Kate, William, Sophie Edward and Anne. Supporting the Queen. A bit of a pointed dig at a certain twosome I'd say.

The York title also reverts to the crown because of archaic laws around daughters not inheriting. It must be slightly different with royal dukedoms though because in the normal peerage, the dukedom would go to Andrew's closest male relative I believe. In this case, that's Charles or, let's say Andrew dies after Charles, I assume it would be Charle's oldest son. So either way, it lands up reverting to the crown?

I have a memory of getting sucked down a rabbit hole about this years ago where a great nephew of some duke was living as a farmer in South Africa and suddenly was the new Duke. It came with all kinds of complicated traditional responsibilities in Scotland or something. Was kind of funny.

here

To use slightly archaic language, it goes to 'the heirs male of his [Prince Andrew's] body lawfully begotten', meaning that it has to be Prince Andrew's son, rather than a near male relative.

Brothers/Nephews obviously can inherit titles from the previous holder, but they all have to be descended from the first holder of the title (i.e. the person whom the title was created for). So for example, there are eight people in line to inherit the Duke of Kent title, including brothers and nephews of the current title holder, but they're all descended from the original Duke of Kent, who was one of George V's sons. The title was created for Prince Andrew, so it couldn't automatically go to one of his brothers. It would have to be a new creation.

Do Grandsons count?

(I feel slightly sorry for his daughters now, its basically saying you aren't good enough for the title... even though the York title is tainted)

I'm afraid not; you can write letters patent in such a way to allow titles to pass through the female line (Earl Mountbatten is one example), but the Queen stuck to tradition with the Duke of York creation.

To use slightly archaic language, it goes to 'the heirs male of his [Prince Andrew's] body lawfully begotten', meaning that it has to be Prince Andrew's son, rather than a near male relative.

Oh that's right, I remember now. I knew there was a specific reason why Andrew's title reverts to the crown. So if he'd had a son and that son had daughters THEN it would go to a cousin or nephew.

The ridiculousness of them only adjusting the rules or progeny for girls in line to the throne enrages me. There's a group of women campaigning to stop it, but of course, the usual, "calm down dear" comments are 10000x worse because it's about the ridiculousness of peerages.

I think Charles will be canny. We forget that purely by being married to Charles that Diana was the previous Duchess of Cornwall, but her more senior title of Princess of Wales was the one in common usage.
Does Auguste stand to inherit a title?

The title Duke of York actually has a really unusual history. Although it was created in the 1300s, and has traditionally been the title given to the Sovereign’s second son (and then in theory would pass to their male heirs), in actual fact it’s only been passed on from a father to a son once in its entire history. All the other previous Dukes of York have either died childless, or ended up becoming the King themselves and so they no longer used it. By only having daughters, Andrew will just be the latest in this long history of the title dying out!

In theory this means that many years hence when Prince Louis gets married he could be created Duke of York (assuming Andrew is dead by then - he’s 61 now and Louis is 3 or so, so quite possible). Or Charlotte could of course be named Duchess of York.

Serenster I've been thinking about that. In a way it's a shame that some old royal Dukedoms are going to leave the family (Gloucester/Kent), and that may be what Charles is trying to avoid with Edinburgh. It doesn't feel right to me to suddenly change direction with Edward though given this was ostensibly decided in 1999, but in reality if Charles has decided to go against that decision, there's nothing anyone can do. I did wonder whether this was behind the recent interviews where they publicly discussed Prince Philip's wishes about the DofE title.

@IsabelGowdie

Who are the 'Magnificent Seven' royals? Thanks!

They are the 7 key senior working Royals supporting HMQ

Prince Charles and the Duchess of Cornwall, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, the Earl and Countess of Wessex and the Princess Royal

Some of the others have the odd charitable patronage, but no key working Royal role. It's the start of the slimming down, and I would expect it to hold until the Cambridge DC are old enough to start duties

Does Auguste stand to inherit a title?

No, because his father does not have one. Same as why Orincess Anne's DC do not have one - female line, decision not to ennoble Capt Mark Phillips meant that there was none to inherit (unlike Princess Margaret's DC who have titles because their father was created Earl as a wedding present)

@EdithWeston

Does Auguste stand to inherit a title?

No, because his father does not have one. Same as why Orincess Anne's DC do not have one - female line, decision not to ennoble Capt Mark Phillips meant that there was none to inherit (unlike Princess Margaret's DC who have titles because their father was created Earl as a wedding present)

I believe Mark Phillips was offered a title but declined it.

I do wonder if they will change things so males and females are treated the same. So, Charlotte becomes the Duchess of York and Louis become the Duke of Edinburgh. It’s an interesting idea. I wonder if William will have any more children.

I do wonder if they will change things so males and females are treated the same. So, Charlotte becomes the Duchess of York and Louis become the Duke of Edinburgh

Why can't Charlotte be the Duke of York? The Queen is the 'Duke of Lancaster' and 'Duke of Normandy', calling her 'Duchess' would imply she was married to a duke who held the title.

There was an article the other day that said that Charles wasn’t going to give it to Edward.

Not sure either Charlotte or Louis will want to be the Duke of York, once they're old enough to know the history. It doesn't seem to augur well!

reporters like Roya absolutely LOVE to print them as gospel truth. The bit I find difficult is William/Charles etc go along with it.
@TiredButDancing but the only way to avoid that would be to issue specific denials, surely, and I can see why they avoid doing that as it would just get ridiculous.

I do think it will look petty and mean of Charles not to give Edward the title. Especially if he is keen to make Camilla queen.

'I think Archie could have been the Earl of Dumbarton in the same way James is Viscount Severn'

They just do away with all the titles shouldn't they. I mean what even is an Earl or a viscount. Dusty old names for a bygone era imo.

I hope they just let it all fizzle out by not allocating titles when people die.

I agred they shouldnt use their titles now they've left and living in a country which doesn't have titles. Imagine Archie going to school Earl of Dumbarton. The teasing would be horrific. Poor kid.

Should just do away*

If the Queen wants Edward to be Duke of Edinburgh, can she not grant him the title herself? Pardon my ignorance if it's obvious to people in the know that she can't.

I think Charles is the Duke of Edinburgh at the moment, so for the Queen to give it to Edward, she would have to strip Charles of the title first, which probably wouldn't go down well.

Technically speaking, when a title becomes extinct (as Duke of Sussex was), a new rewarding of the title is a new creation. It's just use of a name that has been used before. So there is no reason that the Queen can't create a new dukedom for Edward. Duke of Wessex is a good solution, I think. It gives Edward a dukedom (and can be done now) and Edinburgh can remain unused in recognition of its long use by Philip.