Thoughts on Prince William's speech?

[Aspiringmatriarch]

I've been musing on this, I'm not sure I agree with the idea that the Bashir interview created a 'false narrative'. Obviously Diana was lied to, which is appalling, and I'm sure that fueled some of her paranoia but isn't it true that she was spied on at times e.g. with the squidgygate tapes? And she'd already collaborated with Andrew Morton saying many of the same things, and apparently wanted to do an interview after Charles gave his.

I don't know... it just feels odd to me that William is essentially asking for it to be struck from the record. He was apparently angry with her after the Bashir interview and was teased about it at school, which must have been horrible. Is he trying to protect her memory or is there an element of trying to tidy it all away?

ohforarainyday really interesting post, thank you. I think I've also bought into the idea that Camilla is Charles' 'one true love' a bit, but you're right, there were other mistresses and women he was very interested in. Kanga someone sticks in my mind because of the name! It's all in the past now and I don't think Charles should be castigated for it still, but you're right about the PR campaign.

I find the relationship between the royal family and the press itself the most scandalous element of all this. It's essentially impossible to have a view of them that isn't carefully curated by the media.

Interesting comparison between the RF and mafia families. Omerta (is that the word?)

@derxa

Whatever Bashir did, Diana's own written letter makes clear she was not manipulated into it That letter was dodgy to say the least.

What was dodgy about it? I'm unsure of the context ie why she wrote the letter.

William might well want the interview struck from the record, but I am unsure whether he can make that happen?

Fascinating post rainy and I get what you're saying totally. There is no denying that the Monarchy must come above everything... above personal grievances, above relationships, above any problem any member of the RF may have ... it is a case of toeing the party line at all times. It's like working for a Company you may not like (not saying all of the RF feel like this) for the rest of your life. And always putting the Company's public image above anything you might be going through.

If Diana had lived I think the RF could well have been very different to what it is now, and to me, Harry her son is carrying on where she left off. Sarah Ferguson did a bit of it... she wrote a book and had a OW interview talking about the courtiers and how they plotted against her. Diana obviously the same with the men in grey suits. And now Harry.

I do think there is something defective in how it's all run. Very brave of Kate to take this all on but my god I do wonder why anyone would want to marry into the RF.

It's essentially impossible to have a view of them that isn't carefully curated by the media

Yes yes yes to this. I wrote a long post a few months back on exactly this. We are spoonfed a diet of exactly what the PR machine want us to know. It's only when there is divorce or leaving the RF that the wheels come off the bus somewhat, and the PR machine must spend it's whole time fire fighting to get it all back on track.

It's like for instance the Queen never giving interviews. Because of that we have a careful image of her but really we don't know at all what she is like. We may think we do, but we don't. We imagine she is a kindly elderly dutiful lady. (I'm sure she is by the way!) But that is the image that has been given to us.

www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/princess-dianas-handwritten-letter-martin-24150329
It sounds like a disclaimer that Bashir demanded from Diana.

I feel incredibly sorry for Kate. She's had to silence herself and become this perfect fembot. She has a certain degree of Palace protection now, but for years they let her deal with the press abuse and smear campaigns as a hazing ritual to test her loyalty.

Right now the Palace and the press are happy to promote the narrative that Kate's the perfect princess who's never put a foot wrong, but like all PR it's fragile. If Kate ever decides she's had enough of William ("allegedly") cheating on her, the Palace would turn on her and smear her the exact same way they smeared Diana and Meghan.

Oh yes, I don't doubt that for one minute. I've always thought that Kate holds the future of the RF in her hands, she's a very powerful woman. That is not meant to insult her, I think she is perfect for the role but she's not stupid, she knows what power she holds I'm sure.

All of the Queen's children divorced but Ed, H&M had enough and gone, Charles and the awful events surrounding him, Kate & William need to be an enduring marriage or the RF will be on the precipice.

And I forgot to mention Andrew !!!

How on earth did that happen?! 🤣

i don't feel sorry for Kate, I think she had a very good idea of what she was marrying. she didn't rush into it and has the life she wanted.(I hope)

I like Camilla and she and Charles seem happy. but you can't change the fact that both of them treated Diana very badly.
William might want people to forget. but people won't.

Compare Harry and William's speeches. Harry's expressed anger at the press but was a beautiful loving statement towards his mother. William's statement was designed to gaslight his mother (describing her as "paranoid" TWICE within the space of about two minutes) and was quite literally a call for her own words to be censored.

Interesting how people see things differently. Both demonstrated love for their mother and anger at the manner of her loss. Harry's was very tied into his own current aims and preoccupations about the media: didn't mention the BBC at all but keen to say this is an endemic problem and still goes on. William's was highly critical of the BBC but also mentioned the importance of a free press. I don't see calling Diana paranoid as gaslighting: she was, and for very understandable reasons, including the fact that she'd been deliberately lied to and manipulated for other people's benefit. Harry calling her 'unquestionably honest': well meant but demonstrably not accurate. She too lied and manipulated. She had many good qualities but wasn't a saint.

Worth remembering too that all parties say what they say for PR gains. No one's operating outside that.

@Roussette

And I forgot to mention Andrew !!!

How on earth did that happen?! 🤣

@Roussette

Probably part of Will's anger is to do with this. If her trust had not been destroyed like that she may still be alive

^ This.
I think she was actually told that the police/security officers were feeding back information and spying on her when it actually wasn't true.

If I was W or H I would be furious too. She was manipulated when her paranoia was manifesting itself.

Never thought I’d agree with you but I think this is spot on.

Only the people close to her at the time would know what Diana was really feelings and how she behaved, and William was part of that so I think he has the right to say how difficult her last years were. She was already susceptible to people playing on her paranoia, and Bashir's tactics would have undoubtedly played to that.
I found William's statement very much focused on the impact that the interview and the events surrounded it had on others. Of course it made his parents relationship worse, and made his mother feel more isolated and insecure.
I feel a bit uneasy about how Diana has been sanctified since she died, and I do think that Harry is using her to endorse his own (new) identity, however unwittingly. It is a tragedy she died, and I wonder how her life would have panned otherwise.

@derxa

www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/princess-dianas-handwritten-letter-martin-24150329 It sounds like a disclaimer that Bashir demanded from Diana.

Ah, I didn't realise. Yes that does sound dodgy.

@Blossomtoes

See?! We can agree!

There is always common ground somewhere! 😂

This is an interesting discussion and I, too, wonder what the RF would be like if Diana had lived. She had such an enormous impact on them during her lifetime and that would've no doubt continued.

Both Charles and Diana were manipulated into the marriage by their respective grandmothers. The Queen Mother was a nasty bit of work; a cyanide pill encased in marshmallow.

a cyanide pill encased in marshmallow.

What an absolutely brilliant description.

I agree that diana has been sainted now. This often happens when people die. It happened to a family member, they died suddenly and relatively young. All bad cheating behaviour was forgotten and they became a saint.
It also happened with my mother. Made it really hard when i had children, as no one can live up to that parenting.
I think that has happened with diana, her children never knew her as adults, so have. Romanticised veiw of her.

I don't see Camilla as the villain. Nothing is as black and white.I think we all know plenty of divorced people who never should have married in the first place.I think she and Charles are far better suited and his marriage to Diana was doomed from the start for a myriad if reasons.Their personalities for a start.And Diana was already a very mixed up individual as result of her parents dysfunctional marriage.That is not to say I don't feel huge sympathy for the way she was duped by MB and the way she died and the impact on her sons.

I was surprised William made such a speech. What a mess it is all turning into, all the fallings out and raking over history.

Hmmm.... I'm indifferent to Camilla but she did play a part in a failing marriage, making it fail even more.
Imagine if someone on here posted about finding a gold bracelet days before their marriage with engravings on it as a present to his ex girlfriend.
Posters would be incensed!

His heart was never in the marriage and primarily he was to blame, but Camilla wasn't faultless. The friendship continued all through the C&D marriage.

She was already susceptible to people playing on her paranoia,

Long before Bashir she had learnt hard lessons about people taking advantage. Younger readers may not even know about the hidden camera in the gym and the pictures the gym owner sold. Or tried to sell. I can't remember the details but I think the subsequent court case meant that he couldn't sell them or had to forgo payment or something. Pay his legal bills probably.

He was certainly a snake in the grass.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/gym-owner-defends-princess-pictures-bryce-taylor-says-98-per-cent-of-people-would-also-have-tried-his-legal-scam-to-make-money-1504800.html

I don't blame Camilla. Affairs were and still are considered normal in upper class society. She didn't marry Diana. Her own husband was off having affairs of his own. In the end she and Charles seem happy and well suited. There hasn't been a ripple since they married.

I hate people saying William is the firms man. He was older than Harry and will have a very different perspective. Invalidating his experience is cruel.

@Skiptheheartsandflowers I raised my eyebrows at the ‘unquestionably honest’ comment - when she recorded tapes for Andrew Morton she failed to mention her own affair

@GyozaPoser agree with everything in your post