I’ve always been crap with history but!

[Snap8TheCat]

How could I not have realised we had another king between Edward VII and Edward VIII?

So it goes Edward, George, Edward, George?

I blame the fact that none of them use their bloody real names! How confusing.

Genuinely thought Edward VII was Edward VIII and George VI father. I know nothing!

Littlecandle
I'm mad on history and I too love the Plantagenets who I think are much more interesting than the Tudors. I have read everything possible on Katherine Swynford. How much would I love a time machine to go back and see some of my favourite people.

William and Mary were both closely in the succession for the throne, whereas Philip (like most royal spouses) is not part of the succession - or I guess is likely in it somewhere but a very long way down. Mary didn't really want to be queen but they were clutching at straws in those days to avoid having to put a Catholic on the throne.

Victoria wanted to call Albert 'King Consort', which makes logical sense. If Queen can be either consort or regnant, why can't King? However, it was felt people wouldn't understand it (and it had never been done, no Queen has ever had a spouse called King unless he was a king in his own right).

You have to wonder why Philip thought his children would be given his surname - that's not how it works.

buggerthebotox
William and Mary were the only joint rulers in our history and after Mary sadly died of smallpox William carried on ruling on his own.
Mary's Father was James ll. She was the child - along with her sister Anne- from her fathers first marriage to Anne Hyde. Her father married again to Mary of Modena after Anne Hyde died. It was thought that James ll was a practising catholic , his wife most certainly was ( she was French if memory serves) and they had a son, so government, nobles etc were very anxious as they wanted the country to remain Protestant. So, they asked William of Orange to invade. William was the son of James sister ( so he was James nephew) and he was married to James Daughter Mary. So, they both ( William and Mary ) had a very strong and equal claim on the throne. William was ruler of Orange ( a principality of modern day Holland ) in his own right through his father. He rallied his ships and sailed to England and up the Medway I think. James II ran away with his wife and son to France. He didn't return to fight for his throne. He was deemed to have abdicated by husband leaving. So this was called the ' Glorious revolution' as we got rid of any vestiges of Catholic rulers without any battle and had two staunchly Protestant rulers on the throne. They were young and it was hoped they would have children. So, because of Williams own claim to the throne ( for example, if James ll abdicated for himself and his heirs William would have been next in line to the throne) and Mary's strong claim ( eldest child of the last ruler) they ruled jointly. Philip is not ruler as technically King out trumps Queen and we can't/ don't want to elevate a consort to a higher role than the Queenwho was born to rule. So kings wives become Queens but when the King dies they do not rule on their own. They are simply a consort until their husband dies and then they become dowager queen. Hope this helped!!

There is a very good book by historian Maureen Waller called Ungrateful Daughters, which is about Mary and Anne. It is very readable, and I would highly recommend it to anyone who is interested in the period.

I never realised that William III is King Billy, beloved by NI protestants.
William of Orange.....the Orange Order, you learn something new every day!

One thing that always amuses me about our history is that we went through a civil war, abolished the monarchy then after 7 or so years we decided to reinstate it! It just strikes me as such a British thing to do

This is so interesting. There's a doc on right now - Monarchy - about Anne, WilliWilliam and Mary.

I've never known much about what went on between the James and Georges.

For all you history buffs, I can highly recommend this book, it's comprehensive but surprisingly readable.

Oh, and thank you koosh for the info.

CaveMum Spain had two periods of being a republic and then restored the monarchy. After the second republic (in the thirties, before the Civil War), Franco 'restored' the monarchy but in the odd sense of 'you can be the head of state when I've finished with it' so the country was technically still a republic until Franco died in 1975. Juan Carlos was the grandson of the last King of Spain from the 30s, and was meant to take over as dictator-king, like something out of the Middle Ages, but was persuaded that perhaps something a tad more democratic was in order. Hence a return to constitutional monarchy.

A lot of the Netherlands was a republic as well for many years, although with a mysteriously hereditary post of Stadtholder - William as in William-and-Mary being one such.

it had never been done, no Queen has ever had a spouse called King unless he was a king in his own right

It was done twice before, once in England and once in Scotland. Mary I’s husband Philip of Spain was named co-ruler when they married and called King of England. He spent most of his time in Spain, though, and never really functioned as a ruler of England. And his title did not survive Mary, who was succeeded by her sister Elizabeth.

Henry, Lord Darnley, the husband of Mary Queen of Scots, was made King Consort of Scotland.

So, they both ( William and Mary ) had a very strong and equal claim on the throne.

They both had a strong claim, but not an equal one. And Mary’s sister Anne had a stronger claim than William. This actually led to the situation where a woman was heir apparent (as opposed to heir presumptive) to the throne for the only time in history. (It’s possible now, of course, because of the change from male primogeniture.) When William and Mary assumed joint rule, it was assumed they would have children together, but failing that Anne was recognized as the heir. So when Mary died, even if William had remarried and had a child with another wife, Anne and her heirs would be ahead of that child in the succession.

But he has been known as Charles for so long that I think he will probably want to use that name

I don't know about that. There have only been 2 King Charles', one beheaded and one deposed/restored secret Catholic with the morals of an alley cat. It's unlikely he'd want to be in any way attached to the House of Stuart.
He could be King Arthur, wouldn't that be amazing?

with the morals of an alley cat

which fact makes Prince William his direct descendant.

Of course there are probably thousands of people in Britain who are direct descendants of Charles II.

I didn’t know that tribpot, thanks.

As any 1066 And All That readers know, the correct name is Williamandmary (in fact, I recommend 1066 for good overview of British history )

I'm very excited about the second series of The Crown! The actor who plays Margaret is on Radio 2 with Steve Wright at the moment (and is as posh IRL as in the show!)

Anyone who wants to read more about 16th century politics, I really recommend Game of Queens by Sarah Gristwood. It focuses on the powerful women across Europe, as the name suggests

Olennas I like the sound of that book. Thanks!

Genealogists think that most people have some royal blood in them

I've yet to see how Meghan Markle is actually royalty already, though surely it's only a matter of time before one of the papers tells us

Olenna According an article in Harper's Bazaar (having difficulty linking), Meghan is a direct descendant of Edward the Third.

I have no problem believing that everyone has Royal blood if you go back far enough. I did a lot of family research a few years ago and discovered I am 13th cousin to Princes William and Harry on their mother’s side, though I’m not holding out any hope of an invite next May

DH is related to the Plantagenets on his dad’s side with a shared common ancestor amusingly called “Fulke the Rude”

I have no problem believing that everyone has Royal blood if you go back far enough. I did a lot of family research a few years ago and discovered I am 13th cousin to Princes William and Harry on their mother’s side, though I’m not holding out any hope of an invite next May

DH is related to the Plantagenets on his dad’s side with a shared common ancestor amusingly called “Fulke the Rude”

OlennasWimple I've started Game of Queens based on a recommendation from here. I really like that it isn't country-specific.

The daily Mail printed her entire family tree last week!

They had to track down a modern Plantagenet to prove that the body in the car park was Richard III.

Ah - I'm not in the UK so miss some of the detail of what's in the press. I'm not surprised MM has royal blood! (Though I hope she doesn't give up her American citizenship but goes back to the US and becomes president - can you imagine having Harry as First Gentleman? )

Fulke the Rude woukd make a great king.