Will they ever be friends or is tolerance as good as it gets? Anything I can do?

[ElliesNextNameChange]

I had two older cats who were a bonded pair. After one died, I rescued a young adult. Not sure of exact ages, but safe to say resident cat is a senior though fit and healthy, and new one is a young adult. Maybe I should have gone for another senior, but this one needed a home, and its done now. I did a gradual intro with scent swapping. There was some hissing and growling the first time they saw each other. Now they're...okay. They can be in the same room and will sleep in each other's presence, as long as the younger one doesn't get rambuntious/in the older cat's face. If she does, the older cat hisses and swats. Youngrer cat doesn't retaliate. This makes me a bit sad because older cat was never a hissy cat before.

They can both live here - I have space, and they can have seperate exits and entrances. If I feed them treats close to each other, they both eat the treats and don't try and fight each other or anything. I don't need to leave them alone together, there's space for them to be seperate while I'm out and for the younger one to have her one entrance/exit. But it seems a bit - sad? Am I projecting too much human emotion here? Is there any hope they can actually be friends? Its been a few weeks now and they seem to be stuck at resident cat's attitude being "fine she can live here, just keep her out of my face". She's still eating, sleeping, and toileting normally so she's not unduly stressed or anything and I make sure she has her protected alone time/sleep time, which she likes and needs.

@ricecrispiecakes Aw thank you. She's clever too. She's so hyperactive she was going crazy in the shelter. She's very sweet, but she's "a lot of cat", if you like - she really needs to zoom and get her energy out. The first time she went up she was up a fence almost vertically like it was nothing. I've named her Winnie - her shelter name was Mittens, which is a bit lacking in character for her!

My cats don't get on so when they go to Cattery they have 3 pens.. please don't put them
In together as the weaker one won't be able to get away .

My sympathies!
We're still slightly struggling after 8 months. Two 11y+ rescue mogs (mum and her neutered male kitten) who we've had since the kitten was 14wk, and a giant ginger floofball who we got at 13wk and still wants to play play play but the others don't... 90% of the time they tolerate him now (phew) but at kitten zoomies time he will jump on the mum and sometimes bite her neck (he's neutered so😮) or chase her...she growls and shrieks at him. The other male just hisses and swipes so they've got some kind of detente. We occasionally have to step in but it's not as bad as it was. I wish they could get on better but then I think, (to use a human expression!) the mum and kitten aren't huggers. If they don't curl up together and never have, then no way will the ginger nutcase. The only way past that one is yet another kitten his own size and temperament and (given he's a Maine Coon) I can't afford another one and even then it's no guarantee.
Meanwhile our house rings to the occasional loud OI STOP THAT!

@Heronatemygoldfish kitten mad hour is real. I'm jealous you have a maine coon though, how lovely!

My neighbour told me today that Winnie cried for me when I was out! She has certainly bonded to me quickly. I live on a court with communal gardens and Winnie has a window in her own room that goes onto them directly. She seems so kittenish sometimes even though she has in fact had a kitten herself. Teen mum!

@ElliesNextNameChange I waited the best part of 20 years for my MC ! I had an IOU from my DH on our wedding day...

Well, I have to say they were really good yesterday! I'm feeling encouraged. They both spent most of the day in the garden with no problems and minimal supervision. They even passed eachother on a plank of wood with full body contact. I heard ONE tiny hiss all day, and it wasn't much of a hiss. Senior girl has started to permit the little one to sniff her a bit more, I guess that means she's accepting her!

I'm going to a conference for a few days in September, I normally have a sitter for senior girl and I was thinking junior would have to go to a cattery, but now I'm starting to think perhaps they can stay together after all. Time will tell.

Mine have been better the last couple of days as well. They are in the same cattery pen. So hopefully being on neutral territory will encourage bonding. (There is a plan to separate if needed)

@Toddlerteaplease that's good news. Perhaps when they get back from the cattery they will be friends.

Hope so, but not holding my breath. Just hoping Penelope will come downstairs. And I do t need to separate at night.

@Toddlerteaplease I'm still separating at night, though they had another good day yesterday with just a little hiss from senior girl when junior was crowding her on the deck. The real reason is that senior girl has slept in with me for many years and I sort of feel I should retain that priviledge, but I may well give junior freedom to the rest of the house at some point.

Miss Winnie will be going for her first vet check this coming week. I think she's healthy, though she does groom and nibble herself an awful lot and scratches a fair bit too. She's hyperactive but I think that's just her personality, she eats like an absolute horse and seems to be growing longer.

@ElliesNextNameChange, Penelope sleeps with me as well. And like you, she should have priority on that.

and seems to be growing longer.

Boycat & Girlcat were about 2 by the time they came to me - rescued at around 1 then a year before I came along to be claimed by them.

And they definitely grew longer and taller after coming home. There were places they used to hide that within a year even Girlcat, the smaller of the 2, couldn't squeeze herself into any more. Didn't really fill out much, always quite long & sinuous in shape - though Girlcat does have a tiny bit of extra now but she IS middle aged at probably around 10.

@Allergictoironing that's really interesting. I wonder if being a teen mum has delayed her final growth a bit - she was lying extended on the deck yesterday and I thought my God, she goes on forever. So lanky. I bit the bullet today and went out leaving the girls with potential access to each other and to the garden. Senior girl was asleep. I came back to no problems - senior girl was sunbathing in a different spot and little one was in the garden. We still have the odd hiss here and there if little one crowds her or gets too hyper, but I really think we're over the hump now. There were a couple of days at the start when I thought "Oh God what have I done" and its so so much better now. I have to credit YuMove, its definitely increased senior girl's tolerance. Also Dreamies. It would be lovely if they would actually lie together and groom each other like senior girl used to with her old friend, but I think the energy difference is just too much for that.

Well, we have been to the vet.

Little one is not an adult. Vet estimated her at 8 months, weighing in at 3.3kg, in the very peak of health, and diagnosed her as a lovely girl.

Unfortunately she can hunt. 😫

Cat situation still the same: fine, but not friends. 99% of the time, senior girl ignores her existence, with the odd hiss if she gets too rambunctious too close. I'm feeling better about the fact I will be able to go away to a conference in September now and leave them with a sitter though - senior girl is pretty much happy again, and living her regular cat life, mostly going around with her tail in the up position. I took these pictures of them chilling on the bed fairly close with their backs to each other, which the vet declared as 'good'. And another picture of little one just because I like this picture.

You'd never know this was the face of a killer would you. 😫 We live pretty rural so I don't think there's any way to stop her hunting entirely, though I'm not going to let her out at dusk anymore.

That's great progress. Look at the size of those ears!!!

@Toddlerteaplease thanks, how are yours doing? I've realised that any friction that does occur tends to be first thing in the morning, which makes sense as Little One has been in all night and needs to zoom but is also hungry. She's a lot of cat for sure, far far more demanding than her predecessor, though maybe I've just forgotten what healthy kittens are like. My last girl was not well as a kitten so it's been a long time since I've had one.

Mine are in the cattery, and it's honestly better than I hoped. Got a picture of them in the same bed. No fisticuffs. Both seem very relaxed. It's the miracle of Lourdes!

Sometimes it’s just a personality thing unfortunately, they just don’t click!

She’s gorgeous.
if they’re lying that close, they are doing very well indeed - the odd hiss is nothing to worry about.

Try and keep her in at dawn/dusk, you could put a bell on her (however unless they are those massive things like jester’s bells I don’t think they work). There was a report a while ago that said playing with your cat to exercise their hunting instinct and feeding a high protein food could reduce hunting. Didn’t work for me 🙄 the only good thing is that now mine are five they sleep much more and hunt less. Some cats never grow out of it though unfortunately.

Introducing my 2 boys last year was the most stressful few weeks of my life and we were VERY slow and controlled!!!

The new boy was supposedly a senior needing a retirement home.... yeah right! He climbed the walls and hung from the ceiling and chased my 6 year old lazy ginger.... lots of hissing from lazy ginger, a few fights be actually they've worked it out. Crazy senior listened to all the hissing from ginge and toned it down. Lazy ginger has been encouraged to play and has lost over 1kg due to increased activity levels!

They don't snuggle or groom but they are always together, following each other around and consult on important household affairs such as "it is definitely dinner time even though we only just had breakfast".

Ultimately I had to trust them and not get too involved and it turned out the crazy senior was incredibly savvy about other cats, read all the signs and gently nudged himself in!

@user1471548941 I think they often don't show their full personality in the shelter. They told me little one was a sweet cat, and she certainly affectionate, but she's too high energy and mischievous to really be called sweet. She enjoys being petted and praised but she has better things to do than cuddling. @MerelyPlaying I'm considering a bell, but I've also heard that bells can be stressful for the cat. I'll see how, uh, successful she is at hunting over the next few weeks. She's very clever, I wouldn't put it past her to remove a bell.

I actually think a week in cattery together really helped my two…

This was last week- like I said no snuggles or grooming but there are rarely far apart- happy to share a rug, sofa or doormat. If I’d been shown this picture a year ago, I would have cried with relief! The only place there is no compromise is the bed, when we are in it- there is absolutely definitely only 1 cat allowed on the bed at a time and this is something they both agreed on from the start (no, I have no idea why either, cat politics!), unless it’s nearly breakfast in which case 2 cats are required to jump on the bed and wake both humans up!

That looks good! Mine do lie close sometimes, but not that often - they have different preffered rooms, and also, junior girl is never still for very long whilst she's awake. Whilst its still the case that senior girl will hiss if junior gets too rambunctious too close, she did something today which I thought showed that she is really quite comfortable around her. There's a sort of platform which extends from one of my ground floor windows for cat sunbathing with steps down to the ground - I had it put in when the old girl I lost was struggling to jump. Every cat loves the platform, its a prized spot. Junior was lying on it earlier and senior girl wanted to go out, so she just went up on and stepped right over her, in a pretty confident way. I think that shows she's quite secure, because she gave junior easy access to her belly by stepping over her - thankfully junior was in a restful moment and did nothing!

My two unrelated cats only ever managed tolerance, same with my parents cats. Its very normal.
Your cat is v cute

@JackieGoodman Thank you, I'm biased but she's a little doll isn't she? She's also very clever and very affectionate with a huge purr. I'm quite in love with her, though I could do without the hunting!