8 week old kittens and litter tray...

[Piddleissues2021]

Hello! 2 8-week old kittens came to live with us on Sunday. Breeder assured me they were confident using litter tray. They're not; they're not interested in it, and are peeing behind an armchair in front room (keeping them in one room for now so as not to overwhelm them). I've put the tray there so that it's quiet and private, and there's another tray the other side of the room. It's made no difference. The internet tells me to pick them up and place them in tray, especially after eating. But they're so anxious and afraid of me currently that this just feels unkind, and certainly hasn't had any impact on their toileting. Is there anything else I could or should do?

They won’t want to toilet where they eat and sleep so it would have to be a really big crate.

Op try handling the scared one -or both of them- with cat foot on your fingers. This guy socialises feral cats/kittens for rescuing. It’s so lovely seeing their updates.

instagram.com/flatbushcats?igshid=1v088l7k2xvhn

Spent 40 mins putting one of them in tray repeatedly cos I could tell she needed to go. Then I had to answer the phone. So she pissed and shat in the corner of the room. From a height, in fact, so no effort even to cover it. No instinct to do so whatsoever. I've shown her how to scratch at the litter etc. I am stumped.

Can they easily get in the litter tray? Does it have very shallow sides? I would sit on the floor with their food next to you (get very smelly wet food) so they have to come close to you to eat the food. Gradually move the food nearer and nearer to you until they basically have to climb on your knee to eat the food. Once they are happy doing this start to put your hand close to them and gradually progress to stroking them while they are eating. How are they with toys such as feathers on a string, will they play with you?

They won't play with me, they'll only play with each other. One tolerates being stroked and one doesn't. Have spent three days on the floor with them letting them sniff me etc, have been very gentle and gradual with contact. Litter tray very shallow.

They're basically feral. I hate this.

You say 'breeder' .. are they pedigree kittens?

I think I'd be returning them to her tbh if this was a possibility? Or at least considering it. You can't have your house used as a giant litter tray and they are clearly not at all socialised. However I'm also torn on saying this as you can't just return animals when they're not suiting you.

So I think it comes down to the work you're able to put in with them. It is early days I suppose so keep going for now

I had this with mine from cats protection. I phoned and said they would need to go back - a massive cage was delivered the next day and they lived in it with litter tray for 2 weeks - problem solved. So my suggestion is that you phone cars protection and say you need help or you will have to give them up for rehoming to them as the original owner is no longer available. Good luck. The cage was something like this but with no levels. www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-3-Tier-Cat-Cage-Playpen/dp/B07CMY5Y1P

There’s YouTube videos saying force attention on them till they realise it’s ok

@dementedpixie

If its a large crate that fits the litter tray, bed and feeding bowls then I dont see an issue with using one

The problem is, cats don't want to eat where they toilet, and many also like their food and water to be completely separate as well.

Ours are fed in one room, water is in another room, and litter trays in another. When we put their water near their food they just ignored it and kittens need to drink.

OP - it sounds like you're in over your head here - if it's too much then take them to a rehoming centre.

They are tiny kittens that aren't litter trained so don't need their items to be in multiple rooms in the house. In the short term it may be worth enclosing them in a smaller space until they don't pee and crap everywhere

@dementedpixie

They are tiny kittens that aren't litter trained so don't need their items to be in multiple rooms in the house. In the short term it may be worth enclosing them in a smaller space until they don't pee and crap everywhere

I agree they need a small space, but most crates are too small to have all of that in them,

A puppy playpen with a "roof" or similar would be better. Most crates are fairly small if you want them to include litter trays, food, water and a bed.

Decent breeders do not let kittens go before 13 weeks, they need teaching and socialising by mumcat.

I'm guessing you paid for them OP? Sounds like a scam to me and that these kittens have been picked from a feral litter. It would be hard to raise them in a home and to be this unsocialised.

You'll probably need to treat them as you would feral kittens, and a large cage is often the way to go in this situation. Hopefully @thecatneuterer will see this thread and offer some advice.

@Piddleissues2021

OK, so I kept picking them up and petting them; one got used to it quickly and isn't running away from me so much, the other hates it and runs from me all the time. Have put each of them in their trays repeatedly. They're still pissing all over the floor. I'm going to get a crate from Pets at Home and pop them in there after meals with the trays. If that's a terrible idea someone please tell me...

Yes crating is a terrible idea! I am a life long cat owner and have never heard of crating cats before, seems cruel and I think would only make matters worse. (I have crated my puppies so am not against crating full stop, but it is not a cat thing).

It was always going to be difficult to introduce new kittens to your household if you don’t have a small room you can confine them too at first. This is what you need to do with any new kitten, you don’t give them the run of the house on day one. You really need to do this, so I would have a think about which room that you can best use for the short term. Definitely not a small loo or closet, locking a kitten away is not going to build trust or help socialise them.

I am picking up a new kitten on Friday myself. We have a small sitting room just off the kitchen, we don’t normally use it much, but it will be the kittens home for the first few days / week maybe, both food and litter tray will be in there (at opposite sides of the room) and we will also decamp from our usual sitting room and spend most of our free time in there until he settles in. My kitten looked fairly confident but was shyer than one or two others in the litter. If he is shy, I will firstly quietly sit in the same room, reading my book and leave him to come out and explore by himself. When he has a little more confident, I have a cat toy (mouse on end of long stick) that I can try to engage him with whilst still keeping my distance. You need to try and do something like this, be present but don’t rush them, engage gently and build their trust. Not lock them up!! 😉

I think OP likely means a large caged area rather than a tiny crate.

I took my kitten in at 10 weeks. He also wouldn’t use the litter tray, I figured out he didn’t like the plastic lining I was using, the newspaper I had put down around it, and that it was the wrong litter type. I also got him a tray with bigger sides so he could ‘hide’ in there. He was just a very fussy cat, we now have a system in place that works for both of us and haven’t had an accident in months. Don’t crate your cats. Put puppy pads down all along the floor until they have realised they can use the tray. You will get there I promise!

I think you need to put them in a crate - a large dog crate but you will need to stop them squeezing out of the wide bars by covering with netting or similar. Then the crate should have a bed, food and water, and any remaining space needs to be litter tray - so basically they have no choice. This will get them used to it. The crate will also allow you to handle and interact with them without them being able to run away, which is definitely the quickest way to tame them.

And I really hope they're having the mother cat neutered ...

Thank you for all the advice, and a big thanks to the poster who recommended I call Cats Protection, they had brilliant advice and were very reassuring and agreed with large crate to litter train and also to cope with their being overwhelmed with having run of the room.

For those who keep suggesting I put them in a small room: short of uploading photos of my house I'm not sure what to do to make myself clearer. I have ONE reception room in my house. One. Or I have a tiny toilet, a bathroom, or bedrooms; or a very very small kitchen I'd be going in and out of all day. They are being kept in one room; they're being kept in the single reception room that I possess.

Hold your nerve, their young and can be tamed.

I found this on YouTube.

It does sound like someone has sold you some feral kittens. Good that cats protection agree with the crating. I’d also try some different litter, it doesn’t sound like they’ve used the one she gave you so it won’t matter if you try a different one.

They don't sound socialised to me, the last kitten I had was bouncing off the walls from the moment I got him much to the bigger cats disgust.
I had a pair of feral kittens who were very timid years ago and they pissed everywhere until they had tamed down a bit.
I kept them in the larder until they were tamer and they started using the tray eventually.

The problem is, cats don't want to eat where they toilet, and many also like their food and water to be completely separate as well.Ours are fed in one room, water is in another room, and litter trays in another. When we put their water near their food they just ignored it and kittens need to drink.

To take this to mean that cats can't be successfully kept in crates for a variety of reasons, including to litter train and to tame, is plain wrong. Maybe in an ideal world it's better to have litter and food and water further apart, but it certainly isn't a bar to using a crate.

We used a crate. Slightly different situation but 2 semi feral kittens rehomed to be stable cats. Crated so they didn't just run off into the distance
Worked absolutely fine (big dog crate type). Kittens now cats, no longer semi feral. One is still a stable cat, the other batted her eyelashes and now lives inside

Can you mop up the pee with some kitchen roll and ring it out into the litter. Then put them in after they’ve eaten. They should smell the pee and go in the same place.

Is the litter tray got sides which are too high? You could use something else that’s not got such high sides if they are very tiny. A foil traybake type baking tray could be good if you weigh it down with heavy litter? (It has to be heavy enough if they stand on one side of it that it doesn’t flip up in the air, total disaster)

If you wipe their bums with a bit of loo roll or cloth it can encourage them to do the toilet. Their mum would lick them on their bums to encourage them to go, so it will feel like that to them.

Pop up enclosed pet pen from Amazon rather than a crate (more room to play and has a waterproof bottom so no leaks). Put them in after eating and if you see one of them going to squat move them to the tray.

No way has she litter trained them.