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Join our community of cat lovers on the Mumsnet Cat forum for kitten advice and help with cat behaviour.

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Join our community of cat lovers on the Mumsnet Cat forum for kitten advice and help with cat behaviour.

The litter tray

My cats have fallen out

28 replies

loopyloou · 28/08/2013 13:09

Previously started describing this problem on another thread, thought it best to start my own thread.

I have a 4.5 year old Siamese, male neutered, and a 1.5 year old black cat, male neutered. They have been together since we got BlackCat aged 9 weeks and have slept in the same bed, used same litter tray, eaten from the same bowls, played together, perfectly happily.

Something has happened in the last week or so, as Siamese has taken a dislike to BlackCat, hissing and yowling at him when he gets near. He's never done this before.

The only things I've noted that have happened recently are twice Siamese had a small cut on his ear, as if he'd been fighting, once a small cut to his paw pad. Both cats do go out, so the injuries weren't necessarily made by BlackCat. Also they were very minor injuries.

Today I took Siamese to the vets for his booster and asked her to check him over. He's fine, only thing she could find was a small bald patch on his head, where last week he came home with what looked like a little patch of oil (car engine oil?) on his head. The vet thinks he's cleaned himself too thoroughly and pulled his fur out. It's not sore.

I separated them last night, taking Siamese to bed with me - at the advice of Cozietoesie, thanks . Will continue to do so for now.

BlackCat was taken in as a pal for Siamese to replace my old cat that died of old age. As I said, they have never growled or hissed at each other before. BlackCat seems no different and seems slightly bemused that Siamese won't play or tolerate him sniffing at him.

Any ideas?

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hellymelly · 28/08/2013 13:16

Hmm, very strange. I would have said that the siamese sounds as though he has been hurt, and suggested a vet check, but you have done all that. Ime Siamese are rather grudge bearing, so perhaps something has happened to hurt him that he associates with black cat? Perhaps he is getting picked on by a neighbouring cat, and is feeling stressed and defensive, and taking it out on bc? I would try to keep the Siamese inside for a few days and see if he calms down a bit, and ask my neighbours if they have seen any cat squabbles going on.

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loopyloou · 28/08/2013 13:35

It's just about impossible to keep Siamese in - he dismantles the catflap when we lock it!! Having him upstairs at night will cut down on the time he roams around. In the daytime he stays mainly in the garden, I hope anyway.

We're not really on talking terms with the neighbours. Siamese tends to head into the fields over the road mostly, so not sure the neighbours would know what he's up to anyway.

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hellymelly · 28/08/2013 13:58

It really is odd for them to be so close and then fall out. Hopefully they will be ok again soon. I can only assume that something has happened to hurt or scare your siamese and he somehow blames blackcat. You could try the plug in pheremone thingy from the vet, that might help de-stress your siamese.

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cozietoesie · 28/08/2013 14:12

loopy

I'm going to be a tad negative here, so brace.

I've had Siamese for more years than I care to remember and they can be very pernickety indeed with other cats. It can happen suddenly, happen from first meeting, happen.........who knows.

I've also not known them to change their minds about other cats once they assume an adversarial position.

Maybe your Siamese had a fight or two outside with another cat, saw Blackcat in the aftermath and has associated BC with that fight. Who knows.

If they were housecats, I'd say separate them for a good period and then try re-introduction. As they go out, though, they'll inevitably meet.

I just don't know. Maybe time will help but I wouldn't bank on it.

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loopyloou · 28/08/2013 14:45

Thanks for your advice and comments.

I will keep an eye on them, thankfully there is no fighting going on. Whatever happens, they both stay, of course. I love them both, although Siamese is my baby. It was just nice that Siamese had a playmate, as he loves to play. I will have to buy new toys and step in instead

It's just so unusual, as he's always got on with other cats. We had two cats when we got Siamese as a kitten and he ignored one and played with the other. A friend came to stay with her cat and they got on ok.

I had another thought. We have a bench in the garden that Siamese used to sit on in the sun. I recently moved it to another spot and BC sometimes sits on it now, but Siamese doesn't like it anymore. Could I have upset their territories? We moved it a few weeks ago, it could tie in with them falling out.

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cozietoesie · 28/08/2013 14:50

I doubt it's anything to do with you or what you may have done. It's between them.

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hellymelly · 28/08/2013 16:13

I think that could be a factor, they are very territorial. Maybe move it back?

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loopyloou · 28/08/2013 16:29

Hmmm ... I don't know.

I've moved it to a spot where there's gravel especially for it to stand on, looks good there. Where it was before, it was killing off the grass ...

On the other hand, if it makes him happier ...

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cozietoesie · 28/08/2013 18:10

Not that I would ever accuse you of being under the paw, loopyloou......

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loopyloou · 28/08/2013 18:19

What can I say, Cozietoesie? He's a Siamese! I'm sure you understand

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boofted · 28/08/2013 18:56

My cats are all indoor cats and 2 of them are brothers and very very close. Bob got out once and fought with a stray in the garden. He wasn't hurt but I think the stray sprayed him and he didn't smell like himself. After than Wilbur didn't recognise him so he fought with him. It got very aggressive and we had to separate them into different parts of the house which wasn't easy. I tried feliway, bathing both cats so they'd smell the same but it didn't work. Wilbur hated Bob and poor Bob didn't understand why. I read online to use a puppy crate confined to one room alternating which cat went in it each day. I did this for a week. Bob went in one day with Wilbur shut in the room. They hissed and growled but were safe from harm. After a couple of days I was able to feed them treats together although the still growled and when the treats were finished they would fight again. After a week they would tolerate each other but keep their distance and then a few days after that they were back to normal, eating and snuggling together. They way they were fighting I never thought they'd be happy again.

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cozietoesie · 28/08/2013 19:06

Interestingly, I read on the Kitten Cam that FDJ was planning to maybe treat the kits - all of them - with pure natural vanilla essence when Honey came back into the pack. As it happened, she didn't return but there's a thought for us all.

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loopyloou · 28/08/2013 19:06

Boofted, that's good news. A few people have mentioned feeding them treats together, so I'll give it a go. I don't have a crate at present and can't really afford one right now, but will see how we get on first.

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loopyloou · 28/08/2013 19:07

Cozietoesie, would the vanilla essence be to mask their smell?

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cozietoesie · 28/08/2013 19:10

I'd be imagining that vanilla essence being such a powerful smell, it would override anything else and if all the kittens smelled of it (and cats not being able to count) Mom would accept the lot. Just a real small dab I guess.

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loopyloou · 28/08/2013 20:04

I might try that, I have some in my baking cupboard.

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boofted · 28/08/2013 20:57

I hope it works loopyloou. It's unbelievably stressful.

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cozietoesie · 28/08/2013 21:00

It's an interesting thought. You'd need to do both cats of course.

I should emphasize that I've never had to try this.

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loopyloou · 29/08/2013 16:23

Yes, I would put it on both cats.

Today we're doing ok Siamese slept on our bed again, was very good, slept all night. This morning I gave them treats when they were in the kitchen together and there was no hissing, although they were right next to each other.

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cozietoesie · 29/08/2013 16:33

Yep - he's got what he wanted. (His special position.) Be warned that it might not last, though. He may decide to expand his aspirations once he's got used to bedroom privileges.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

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loopyloou · 29/08/2013 16:38

Oh, he always has had his special position and privileges tbh, as he's my baby! BC is more of an outdoors cat, rarely cuddly, whereas Siamese is exactly that, typical Siamese. He comes running when I come home and gets straight on my knee, he's very much "my" cat, he's spoilt rotten, because I can't say No, when he looks at me with those blue eyes!

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cozietoesie · 29/08/2013 16:43

Maybe he needed even more of you (some of them can be nigh on insatiable in my experience) so will now be happy. I have my doubts - but think positively!

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loopyloou · 29/08/2013 16:51

Fingers crossed. He can have as much of me as he wants - currently curled up in my knee . Do you think they get clingier as they get older? He's only 4.5 but definitely calming down.

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loopyloou · 29/08/2013 16:53

What colour points is your Siamese Cozietoesie? Mine is a blue point, but rather old style, i.e. not got huge bat ears!

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cozietoesie · 29/08/2013 16:55

Clingier but quieter, in my experience. (I've always had chocolate boys.)

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