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Join our community of cat lovers on the Mumsnet Cat forum for kitten advice and help with cat behaviour.

what do you think about this?

15 replies

out2lunch · 27/06/2012 19:27

just got in and the dcs are a bit concerned - a kindly neighbour called in to say that her neighbour has had one of their chickens killed (free range - farm lane type environment)

we have two cats and they do kill the odd creature but usually leave in the garden for us

the kindly neighbour said she wasn't at all sure if it was our cat but everyone knows our cats are out and about lot/basically outside cats

she said we might want to keep our cats in for a few days as her neighbour has a gun and is likely to shoot whatever killed his chicken

where do we stand legally? i know we can't control our cats but can he do this??

thanks

OP posts:
AdventuresWithVoles · 27/06/2012 19:28

Aack, I am worried my cats will go for neighbour's chickens, too.
Ours are afraid of the chickens, so far. But avid hunters of other creatures.
Marking space.

out2lunch · 27/06/2012 19:30

just to clarify -they are our neighbours but about 500 yards away

OP posts:
JustFabulous · 27/06/2012 19:32

I would maybe call the non emergency police and ask for advice as someone can't just can't shoot a cat Shock.

AdventuresWithVoles · 27/06/2012 19:44

Browsing online the consensus is that no way can your neighbour legally shoot the cat; otoh, the neighbour is not required to inform you if he accidentally kills the cat, either (like if it ran under his car wheels). And he might be able to legally destroy feral animals (not sure if law is clear on that).

Early replies on this thread seems to answer well.

tabulahrasa · 28/06/2012 09:10

I'd keep them in tbh, if it's a farm - I'd imagine it's covered by the same laws as dogs worrying livestock, farmers are allowed to shoot dogs they suspect of worrying animals if they see them in a field, I don't see why it would be different for a cat?

issey6cats · 28/06/2012 11:39

i would keep the cats in for a few days and if its something else killing his chickens like a fox which is more likely then you will be able to say its not my cats

Fluffycloudland77 · 28/06/2012 14:27

You cannot use a firearm, even an air rifle afaik, within 50metres of a road, public footpath or bridal path.

They can have their gun confiscated with no compensation if they do and their gun licences revoked. My DH clay shoots so I know a little bit about gun law.

I would think a cat killing a chicken would be delighted and take it home to mommy to see. Foxes kill and leave prey like chooks but not cats.

I would attribute a death to a fox. Chickens are big when kept domestically and I think it would be too big for it to hang on to long enough to kill and like I say, they bring prey home.

I would keep my cats in though, just till I knew the lay of the land re the neighbour and so his temper can cool.

Fluffycloudland77 · 28/06/2012 14:28

Cats have a legal right to roam btw, dogs dont which is why farmers can shoot them if they are worrying sheep.

out2lunch · 28/06/2012 18:12

thanks everyone - i agree with you fluff

OP posts:
MNP · 28/06/2012 19:16

Our cats steer clear of our little bantams so would be surprised as a pi$$ed off chicken is a fearsome creature, more especially if there are cockerels.

Migsy1 · 30/06/2012 23:21

Very unlikely that a cat would kill a chicken. Most likely to have been a fox and any chicken keeper would know that.

LineRunner · 30/06/2012 23:23

I agree it is unlikely a cat is to blame.

out2lunch · 01/07/2012 00:10

well all quiet on the western front here - so far so good

OP posts:
hunton1 · 19/07/2012 00:39

"I would maybe call the non emergency police and ask for advice as someone can't just can't shoot a cat shock."

"Browsing online the consensus is that no way can your neighbour legally shoot the cat; otoh, the neighbour is not required to inform you if he accidentally kills the cat, either (like if it ran under his car wheels). And he might be able to legally destroy feral animals (not sure if law is clear on that)."

Err, yes he can legally shoot a cat if he catches it killing chickens. The law is absolutely clear on destruction of feral animals and on shooting to protect livestock or crops.

Protection of livestock is very well defined in firearms law - it's exactly the same as shooting a dog that is worrying sheep. My grandfather had to shoot the dog of a family in the village a while back. Broke his heart as he loves animals. He caught it once, jaws around a lamb. He would have been entirely within his rights to shoot it on the spot, but he took it home with some strong advice for the owners. Caught it a second time, should have shot it but being a softie gave it a reprieve. Third time it got shot. It's his livelihood and it's the responsibility of owners to control their pets. He cried all evening after doing it, but it had to be done. He even took it back to the owners to bury with his sincere apologies. But he can't have dogs killing his animals.

Now, chickens are a bit marginal - lower financial value than a sheep, and if they're kept as pets, well, they're not exactly livestock so it's a grey area. I would also concur that it's unlikely a cat was the culprit. However, if one of the cats were to go sniffing round his hen coop, I would not be at all surprised if it suffered a rather sudden case of lead poisoning, and it would be entirely legal.

hunton1 · 19/07/2012 00:58

"You cannot use a firearm, even an air rifle afaik, within 50metres of a road, public footpath or bridal path.

They can have their gun confiscated with no compensation if they do and their gun licences revoked. My DH clay shoots so I know a little bit about gun law."

The law you're looking for is Highways Act 1980, Section 161(2b):
61 Penalties for causing certain kinds of danger or annoyance.
...
(2)If a person without lawful authority or excuse?
(a)lights any fire on or over a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway; or
(b)discharges any firearm or firework within 50 feet of the centre of such a highway,
and in consequence a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered, that person is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale."

So yes you can shoot near a road. And highway in this case means any right of way for vehicular traffic, so not footpaths.
Although you can shoot near and over such highways, the law stipulates that you must not cause alarm or distress (or injury!) to any users of that highway. As you can see, the law makes provision for a fine. It is unlikely one would lose their certificate or guns over such a conviction unless it were shown that the complainant was endangered, which would show the holder to be unfit.

By way of example, we have a road along one side of one of our fields. If I need to have a bash at a troublesome fox around lambing time or we're suffering a surplus of rabbits, then for obvious reasons, the safest way to shoot is with your back to the road hedge and shoot into the field - away from the road and towards a hill (which makes a good backstop, not that I miss :p ). If someone came along in an open topped car and was disturbed by the noise, they might get a conviction against me under the highways act (although I doubt the CPS would consider it in the public interests to pursue a prosecution). However, I probably wouldn't lose my ticket since I was shooting in a safe and responsible manner - which is all the firearms unit care about. That being rather more important than whether someone's delicacies are offended by what I (legally) do on my own land to protect the livestock.

I should point out it's a quiet lane where the only pedestrians are our neighbours coming to us or vice versa. If it were near a town or somewhere you regularly had pedestrians, some other orientation would have to suffice, or we'd try and go down from a cartridge rifle to an air rifle that was quieter and more discreet, although for fox it needs to be cartridge or shotgun for a clean and humane kill.

Also, shots must not leave the boundary of the land (covered separately in the Firearms Act), but that's kinda obvious.

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