Breeder sense-check

[cinnamonfloof]

I haven't had a puppy in a while and I'm just after a sense-check here.

I'm looking at a breed that typically has small litters (1-3 pups). I don't live in the UK, and there's one 'registered' breeder of this breed in the country I live in. My initial impressions are that they are reputable - focus on health and improving the breed, good lines (imported), champion titles etc. However, when I inquired about breeding intentions, I found out that they're planning to breed 2 bitches later in the year.

Usually breeding more than one bitch at the same(ish) time would be a red flag for me. However, I'm wondering if the small litter size makes this more acceptable? I haven't had this breed before and my other dogs came from larger litters so I'm not sure what's common with small litters.

The breeder can’t control when the bitches come into season. As long as they have the ability to care for both litters I can’t see a problem.

This is the crux of it. No the breeder can't control when the bitches come into season, but they can control how many bitches they breed from. You're right that it's about the ability to care for the litters. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is, is breeding one bitch who has 10 puppies, or 3 bitches who have 3 puppies each, the same thing.

Why would a registered breeder breeding from two dogs be a red flag? If someone has only one dog they're breeding from then it's a person breeding from their pet. Every registered breeder I know has multiple actively breeding animals at a time. 1. To be financially viable and 2. Because people breed lines so have multiple different lines going at a time.

I don't understand what your concern is?

Most of the reputable breeders I know don't breed to be 'financially viable' - they often lose money if they're doing it correctly. But good to know you don't think it's an issue.

My dogs breeder had two litters at the same time. She has a number of bitches and for her it’s a full time job so she has the time to care for them. Dogs are from good lines, crufts qualifiers, etc, well socialised. She’s been great with support as I’ve started showing the pup I got from her and I see her at dog shows and pop over for grooming help. So for me it would depend, it can be a red flag for a puppy farm. But I never thought my breeder was a puppy farm, it’s all proper contracts and will take the dog back if ever needed in its life time, etc. she’s had a 14yo dog returned after the owner died and said she will just keep it and will live out its days with her.

The breeder would hopefully of given this huge concentration. The welfare of both bitches , the chances of things going wrong, possibility of c sections , hand rearing ect . And balanced this with the breeding age of both bitches , would one be retired by the time they come into season again , do they not want to breed the next time due to holidays, shows ect .

This is absolutely true, but without knowing the breeder well it's impossible to say whether these things have been taken into consideration, or whether it's 'they're in season so we'll breed'. The vibe I get, however, is that they are experienced and reputable and therefore likely to have thought things through. I guess this is where the whole idea of them interviewing you and you interviewing them is important!

I personally wouldn’t. I’d bet good money each bitch has more than two litters if he’s breeding this many per year and I doubt their living conditions are any good…

And no. You can’t help when a bitches season is, but that doesn’t mean you have to have that many litters at once.

PPs on this thread are referencing breeding practices (breeding multiple bitches at once) that most other breeders, including myself, would frown at. Or in my case call them what they are: money making, animal abusing tossfucks.

The best breeders do not usually have multiple bitches of pup rearing age all at once in my experience. And certainly wouldn’t breed from them all in a short space of time. My first question is if they have multiple similar age girls now, what happens to them once they are no longer ‘useful’? Are they conveniently lacking in retired, well cared for, much loved former mothers? Or overrun by mature dogs?

@Dunnocantthinkofone more diplomatically put than me!! Probably a lesson in me not looking at mumsnet after I've been doing my re-homing work...it alway tends to make me a bit grumpy😳

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks i can imagine 🤬
I can be a mardy cow on here too but to be fair, this poster sounds more clued up than our normal ‘breeder check’ ones! Plus as you’ve already used the stick, it leaves me the carrot 😂

No breeder is breeding for a loss. It doesn't matter what they tell you. They might not all make thousands but they all at least break even, often alongside proving their dogs through their puppies.

What is a red flag is when it is the only stream of income for the breeder(s). Depending on what else is going on with them, it might show that they don't have the funds to ethically breed.