Differences between a Labrador and a golden retriever, male/female?

[GreenBox1]

Is there a big difference between a golden retriever and a labrador?
We had a golden from age 4 so missed puppy stage until age 13. The hair is unreal but in general he was a lovely dog. We are looking at a lab or golden. Are there many differences? Is there much difference in male or female? I found a labrador breeder im really happy with but I intended on getting another golden so now im unsure.

I have never had a GR but have a lovely male black lab.
He was bonkers as a puppy, chilled out by about 2, he does malt but jot all do (he has very thick fur), eats to high heaven and is just our lovely big boy. Would recommend any day. In terms of personality I don’t think they are too dissimilar.

Are they very bitey as pups? Ds is 12 but a bit nervous about this stage as we got golden when he was older and never had to go through it.

Yes they are. But tbh most puppies are. When they are tiny it isn’t bad behaviour, it’s them learning.
Ours grew out of it naturally when his big teeth came through at about 6-7 months

They're very different in terms of personality.

I only have Golden Retriever experience but the question is something I get asked a lot so I've spoken to a lot of lab/flattie owners over the years about it. Tbh I think a Golden Retriever is more similar to a Flat Coat retriever than a Labrador Retriever.

Temperament: even though you got your Golden Retriever at 4, you probably already know that they stay puppies for almost all their lives. Even when they're 8/9/10 they can still have that 'puppy energy.'

I think labs (at least the ones I know) are a bit different. They tend to mature slightly faster and once they're 4/5 they're 'adults' in a way that Golden Retrievers never are.

Labs are a bit more 'independent' and 'robust' as well I think. I've never known a Golden not want to be around their family 24/7 which means they can be terrible for separation anxiety because of that if they're left long or not trained well.

Training: Personally I think Golden Retrievers are more challenging to train. Obviously they're typically food motivated, like labs, but they're also more 'desperate to please.' Which works in your favour if you know what you're doing, but if you don't can be a nightmare.

Golden's are far more sensitive to harsh words than people typically realise, and so when they do something wrong - assuming they're not having a manic moment where all they can focus on is being a massive nob - they tend to be quite 'upset' and that can present challenges later down the line with training as they do 'hold a grudge' (as my mother puts it). They also tend to be more easily distracted - again because of the slow mental growth they have.

Labs don't necessarily have that 'sensitivity' to the same levels that Golden's do and in terms of personality are more 'resiliant' - even if poorly bred (a whole separate thread could be done in the differences in temperament between a well bred and badly bred dog) - so if they're told off, they just bounce back.

Health: Health is the biggest difference. Obviously both have the usual issues with skin, elbows and hips. But Golden's are far more pre-disposed to cancer than labs (although UK lines less severely effected than US lines).

Puppy Years: Golden Retrievers are little bastards as puppies. I've had them for twenty years (I breed them) as an owner and they have driven me to tears. By week 7 of puppy raising I am usually ready to throw them out the door to their new families and having to keep them until 8 weeks is akin to torture (honestly, if it was used as a form of torture I would not be surprise). And it improves horribly slowly. It takes months for them to really understand the strength of their bite - easily 6/7 months in extreme cases - and after that, they'll still want to mouth and if they get over-excited they'll still mouth hard. My boy sometimes walks alongside me on walks with my wrist in his mouth. It's his thing. There's never any malice in the puppy teething, but they will get a 'look' that is vicious - because they think it's a form of play - and that can be intimidating to children. if I had a £ for every time someone said their Golden Retriever puppy was vicious and it was just playing, I'd be as rich as Musk.

All puppies are rough. But Golden's are up there with GSDs/Malis and Collies when it comes to teething. Labs are rotten as well, but not as bad as they're not typically as manic (see above).

So I guess it depends what you're willing to put up with and what you want. I adore Goldens. There will never be another breed like them for me. But they're rough and not everyone wants to be watched whilst they shower...

Labs tend to be bouncier than GR, which are usually calm dogs. Labs all moult, their hairs are shorter than GR and seem to get everywhere including rooms they are not allowed into.
They are generally both good-natured breeds. Apart from dogs being possibly a bit bigger, there is no real difference between dogs and bitches, ime.
Yes pups do nibble but you stop them by gently disengaging your fingers/toes and giving them something else to chew on. It doesn’t usually hurt because their teeth are tiny and jaws are not powerful.

Having lived with both, the most obvious difference is size.

The GR male I lived with was pretty standard for the breed and easily at least 3-4 cm taller than my male lab. My lab was working lines but closely conformed to height standards for a male.

My lab was easy to train and very willing to please me, but was a bugger for my husband. I did all the training classes though. He was fab at retrieving and searching for hidden objects. But as an adolescent, he had quite the prey drive, and chased everything.

They both matured into lovely, kindly dogs . Both very chilled with people and other dogs.

I also have a lab bitch, who is quieter than the male; probably smarter , but nowhere near as cuddly, nor into people that much. Her retrieving is not as sure as the male, but she came to me as an adult dog and was less interested in play.

She is obedient in ways neither of the males were.

I’m sure I read somewhere that males are slightly harder during adolescence than females because of the testosterone but someone correct me if I am wrong. I may be convincing myself that is the case because I currently have an adolescence male lab 😂 he is actually a lovely boy though, even in his worst moments I adore him. We were lucky as the puppy biting wasn’t at all bad and when he did get in to a bit of a frenzy, giving him a time out (in the kitchen with the baby gate closed) soon got the message across not to bite us. I am totally biased but labs are ace.

The only advice I would add to the excellent stuff already here is to make absolutely sure you know whether you want show or working lines - in either breed.
There are enormous differences. To the point that really you are looking at 4 different breeds, not 2

The hair on your clothes, furniture, carpets, car, everywhere is longer.

Instead of retrieving the lab from his head stuck inside the bin, youll be retrieving the bin lid from whatever incredible smart hiding place its been carried off to, so silently that you never even noticed it happened - or that they've also unlocked three cupboards and silently opened a brand new bag of kibble whilst you sat ten foot away. If youre lucky, when finding the bin lid youll also discover five socks, two individual shoes, one wellington boot and a teddy bear nobody remembers having in the same place. With a lab, any of those are more likely to be found inside the dog.

They look less like a big yellow whale launching into the water and more like a big yellow otter. The muddy water definitely travels further from retriever fur with an extra sting to it as it's flicked off long hair like a whip. Long hair is particularly well designed to hold onto fox shit in a way that a lab's isnt.

You're more likely to have a delicate, super gentle mouth with tiny teeth take your hand from out of nowhere to guide you if you're bumbling around the house in the dark with a retriever. You're more likely to trip over a massive lump at the bottom of the stairs with a lab.

ExMIL owned and trained both over the years, usually in pairs. The giant male retriever was a bit of a dickhead at times (he was her only singleton), but the smaller ones that I think were working lines were both lovely, gentle and relatively patient criminal geniuses.

😂😂😂 I can tell you as someone that has had three labs from 8w that they bloody do hurt!

Nibbling is one thing… launching at you like a manic land shark and hanging on is quite another. Obviously this is a passing phase but it brought me to tears on several occasions.

They are wonderful, but little bastards. But wonderful.

I’ve never had GRs. We’re bringing our 4th lab puppy home in 3w. They are wonderful wonderful dogs. But they are bloody hard work as puppies/adolescents. Our 11year old is a delight… but it took till she was about 2 to start seeing the grown up dog she’d become… and till she was 4 before she was fully mature.

We’ve had 1 boy and 2 girls. New puppy is a boy. They were great in their own ways.

Boy 1 was my heart. He thought made the sunshine. He didn’t have separation anxiety and was happy to be left, but always wanted to be attached to me if possible. Very obliging in all ways. Delighted by visitors children etc. However, when a suspicious man followed me across a field in the dark he defended me, and growled until the man left. I was flabbergasted as I didn’t think he had it in him!

Girl one was DESPERATE to please… but also had strong opinions on how things should be. She wanted to be next to you always, and have you physically touch her… but she didn’t want to be cuddles/sat on your lap… but she’d rather sit on the hard floor so she couldn’t touch you, than on her bed 2m away. As a puppy she was much more independent than dog 1. She was also very bright and ‘with it’.

Girl two, our current dog is a lovely lovely person… surprisingly she would be ‘Tim nice but dim’ if she were human. Everything is ‘woohoo my best thing ever!’ But she’s quite submissive with other dogs. Once she was over the puppy stage she’s been no bother ever. She is happy to be cuddled on the side, but if there’s a comfier spot on the other side of the room…

The lab breeders I know have all said whilst they mainly have girls due to breeding and showing, if they could only have one dog they’d have boys. I’m looking forward to having a boy again.

Edited to add, all three have been wonderful family pets and (once over the puppy stage) brilliant with kids/people/other animals.

I have 2 goldens and don’t recognise your descriptions of GRs at all @TheHungryHungryLandsharks

I know you didn't mention flatties but someone else did. My dad has had 3 flatties and they have all been the loveliest digs I have ever met (I am a cat person). None have been barky, the worst was the first one who didn't bark when our garage got burgled three times but would do one bark if I came home past curfew! They've all been very loving, not stolen food/counter surfed/bin surfed. The worst is the current one who stole a ham that my nephew left right at the edge of the table so Elsa (named after born free lion, not Frozen!) thought was hers, plus she does like to do the prewash as you stack the dishwasher! Two moulted a lot, one not so bad, and they've all been well behaved with other dogs despite my dad/step mum not really training them. They were all from the same breeder which may explain the similar temperament. If I were ever to get a dog I would be v tempted to get a flattie cause the 3 have been complete adorable.

This is hilarious and so so true from my experiences.

I had always had Labs until I took on a rescue Lab/Retriever cross. He was the goofiest, sweetest, most uncoordinated (when he approached the sofa people, dogs, cats already on there braced as he launched) dog I have ever known. He was also not very bright. In the four years I had him (adopted age 11) he only did one intelligent thing which was when I lost him in a wood and he made his own way back to the car. I would say Retrievers are more needy than Labs. But both are wonderful.

I’ve lived with over forty. And have five at the moment. I am also heavily involved in rescuing them.

People do not understand them the way they often think they do 😊

I think they are working labs but I must check that. What is the difference between working and show?

I think most people’s will recommend the breed they have and it’s hard to get a comparison. I have my first golden and she in only 1, never had a lab so can’t compare. She has been an absolute dream. I would always go with a bitch though as the adolescent period for boy dogs is tough. All of the boys I have had have been incredibly stubborn, regardless of breed. They are lovely once they come out the other side of teenage years!

https://www.wylanbriar.com/buying-a-pup/types-of-labradors/

Here’s an article explaining the differences.

If you look at the pedigree then you’ll be able to see titles that the dogs have earned. Dogs being shown may have ShCh, or JW next to their names. Whereas dogs that have been working might have FTW or FtCh. However that only shows you the dog has been competing in their chosen discipline and won. Many, most in fact, dogs of a particular type will not have won titles. But if you see these titles further back in a pedigree it gives you an idea of the types of dogs in the pedigree.

I’ve always had show bred labs, from breeders actively showing their dogs, and all our dogs have had at least one show champion parent, several with junior warrants too. I personally prefer the look, that’s why we went with show bred the first time. With the subsequent dogs we’d made contacts through showing our boy, and that’s how we chose the breeder of our girls. All of our dogs have had similar dogs in their pedigree by the time you go back 5/6 generations. Personally I like the ability to look up dogs in their pedigree and be able to find pictures/critiques from judges and often snippets of information about their relatives.

Interestingly the one dog we’ve had who’s dad had his show gundog working certificate (a qualification for show dogs to prove they also have working), has the least retrieving ability of the others, compared to those who’s parents only had showing accolades. 😂 We did some ‘pet’ gundog classes, just basic stuff, with our girl who only had show dogs (with no show gundog working certificates) in her 5 generation pedigree, and she was brilliant, really got it and wanted to get it right for us. She seemed to love it but unfortunately classes were a long way from home (this was 2013/14) and it wasn’t practical for us to continue with a young family.

I think aside from the physical appearance (which is a matter of preference), the perceived wisdom is that show dogs may (once mature) be less ‘busy’ in their brains, with less working drive. I’ve heard that show dogs are typically less bright than working, altho I’m not sure how true that is. But having seen both types with experienced owners (competing in their chosen discipline) and in ‘pet’ homes, I think the overriding factor as to how your dog will turn out is how much effort and time you put into training. The best behaved and most ‘chill’ young lab I know in a pet home is completely working bred, but her owner was absolutely on it in terms of training and put a huge amount of effort in front of day one, never letting anything slide and you can see how much it’s paid off.

If you want to show your dog then you really need a show bred line as the two types are now very different. I know very little about field trials, but I understand it’s the same. It’s slightly less of an issue I believe if you just want to do some steady picking up on a local shoot, not competing in trials.

@GreenBox1 typically working lines will be smaller and require more stimulation - mental and physical.

Not always the case though. I know working lines that are quite chilled and I (personally) have very high energy-high drive show lines.

I do have to say I 100% agree with @Housesellerinapoormarket on this:

But having seen both types with experienced owners (competing in their chosen discipline) and in ‘pet’ homes, I think the overriding factor as to how your dog will turn out is how much effort and time you put into training

With the exception of certain 'nanny' breeds, I don't think there is ever really any 'bad dogs', just bad owners.

I’m with you was just coming on here to say that. I have two at the moment (6&5) and have had two others in the past. All from puppies.

Golden Retrievers are widely considered as the third most intelligent of dogs. All mine were toilet trained within a week. All mine were well trained in manners/walking/ recall very quickly. Mouthing is dealt with by distraction and giving them something else to hold. They re soft mouthed so rarely bite down. Time and patience is all that’s needed.

Goldie’s are velcro dogs and will want to be in your bedroom/ in your bed. I have hoovers upstairs and down and wooden floors. Have had no problems with leaving them - again repetitive training.

They have never jumped at the counter for food - have never been in the bin - never beg at the table. I’ve left joints out and never been touched.

They are amazing with our 2 year old granddaughter - never nipped or mouthed her.

My son has a black lab - food zombie. In the bin on the counter - he will get it! His black hair is worse in my opinion cos you can see it more easily! He was a nightmare as a puppy - we looked after him regularly - took ages to toilet train, very stubborn, and was very bitey and he hurt! However, by 2 he had calmed and is super well trained now and a lovely dog.

Goldies all the way for me though! They’re asleep by 7 every night 😂

@NoLongerATeacher You've literally just echoed everything I said about their trainability and need to be with their people. You've just missed the nuance I added to that and the implications of that nuance...
😂 What you've said is more akin to what I've said than the PP you've quoted.

My experience echoes @TheHungryHungryLandsharks

I do find Goldies are very easily misunderstood though. Almost always their version of ‘slightly stressed and kinda know I’ve done something wrong’ is to hype up and act like an exaggerated clown. Rushing around, jumping,mouthing - generally acting like a tit. Many people read that as ‘excited’ and act accordingly. Get heavier with their attempts to calm the dog, with sterner voice etc.
Which makes the over sensitive clowns even worse. If a pattern develops, it leads to issues

TheHungryHungryLandsharks - I agree with most of what you have said as you are clearly an accomplished breeder/trainer etc. However, I said I agreed that I didn’t recognise your descriptions of GR’s such as :

Personally I think Golden Retrievers are more challenging to train
Not in my experience - they are highly intelligent and don’t even really need food treats - they’ll do it to please you.

They also tend to be more easily distracted - again because of the slow mental growth they have.
Nope mine completely focus on me - I took slow mental growth to mean low intelligence bit if slow to mature - not really seen that either.

Golden Retrievers are little bastards as puppies - mine grew up with our granddaughter and never once hurt her or nipped her. I could never have left the black lab alone with her he would have turned. I don’t know maybe it’s because I’m retired and I had the time to invest?

All puppies are rough. But Golden's are up there with GSDs/Malis and Collies when it comes to teething. Labs are rotten as well, but not as bad as they're not typically as manic
I think this is the one I mostly disagree with - you cannot put a soft mouthed GR in the same category as a GSD or Malis!! My sons black lab was way worse as a puppy.

But they're rough - did you see my photo 😂😂 If you could ever trust a dog around a child it would be a GR ( you can never trust any dog 100%) Rough? That’s too strong 😂😂

Wet Labradors dry off a little faster than wet goldens, and a a less daunting sight after they’ve wallowed in mud or wet sand. Lab hair is shorter but it seems to spread further.

But they're rough - did you see my photo 😂😂 If you could ever trust a dog around a child it would be a GR ( you can never trust any dog 100%) Rough? That’s too strong

Based on my experience, no it isn’t. I’m a trainer of multi decades and have always owned goldies. My experience runs into the hundreds if not more at this point. Goldies absolutely have an inherently kind temperament in the main but you’d honestly be shocked at the number who have learnt to use that intelligence to get their own way with loutish, rough behaviour, who resource guard (particular breed danger but can be ‘learnt’ in the wrong hands) or similar
with respect, 2 dogs are NOT representative of any breed!

As an example of my most recent 3 puppies, one hardly mouthed at all, one middling. The final one - and bear in mind my experience level- was that ‘little bastard’ @TheHungryHungryLandsharks alludes to. Mouthy,jumpy, over excited little shit to the point of dangerous! He’d knock people or dogs flying if I’d let him. Only ever enthusiastic tbh, but full pelt and stressed up, he was quite something.
He grew up into a soft gentleman but he’d have been rehomed if he’d gone to a standard pet owner. God I miss that boy 💔