Is guardian ownership for breeding dogs common, or is this unreasonable?

[Thatcannotberight]

I've never heard of Guardian ownership. It seems pretty unkind and the mention of potentially 4 litters, absolutely brutal.
Is this a common thing? https://cornishdoodles.co.uk/guardian-home-application-form/?fbclid=IwdGRjcASpuSpjbGNrBKm5HGV4dG4DYWVtAjExAHNydGMGYXBwX2lkDDM1MDY4NTUzMTcyOAABHo5IDG7aLIwc-4JS-zqmHC_8_E_8JX28DKpuywbF2Z994Tt3kO62MaDcVD_0_aem_Z7EVwPCC_S5UGrIIaVw0KA

@TeaSet It doesn't make it any better, but at least the puppies have their mum around for a bit longer.

Five bitches due to give birth! I doubt the puppies are being raised in the house then either.

At £4.5k they must be raking it in! 23 puppies a year is over £100k.

It's just awful all round. The poor bitches being removed from their families for up to ten weeks, just when they probably need them the most.

Who on earth would agree to those conditions? Morons who think they are getting a designer doodle for free. And that they can go on holiday without the expense of kennels or dog sitters.

Cunts.

Happy to see several comments on the original post calling them out as puppy farmers and spelling out how horrible this is for any dogs involved.

Mina and Denby
Petite to Mini Bernedoodles
Price: £4700 + VAT
Estimated adult size (from floor to shoulder height): 10-20”
Estimated adult weight: 10-17kg
Expected Coat Types: curly, wavy and straight
Expected Colours: Black tri colour, merle tri colour, red and white

What they really mean:

Breed: Mongrel.
Price: Extortionate.
Estimated Adult Size: No Clue.
Estimated Adult Weight: No Clue.
Expect Coats Types: Anything. Might even be naked.
Expected Coat Colours: Anything. Might not even have a coat.

£4,700 + VAT for this is insane. That's over £5.5K.

But it is really evidence that people will fall for anything as long as it 'looks good.'

@SpanielsGalore do you recon their 'ethics' run as far as their tax contributions? Something tells me they absolutely don't...entirely different problem of course, but a point around puppy farming that people rarely think about. 🙁

My friend does this. I had thought of her as an ethical dog owner. Had her previous family dog for years, great dog. Then her kid wanted a cute puppy post divorce, she was desperate for him to be happy. Became guardian to a doodle. I think it’s always a doodle. Only two litters required. But still. I think it’s a terrible idea but she saw it as the only way to get a dog that her kid wanted. The dog has regular contact with the owners so not as traumatic as nothing and then giving birth with strangers, thank goodness.

Fuck me, you could get 22 & 1/2 rescue Podencos for that!

OP, have you considered 22 1/2 rescue Podencos instead?

I'm really not in the market for any kind of other dog , certainly not a designer mongrel with a designer price tag. I'd just never come across this arrangement before and wondered if everyone else was appalled as I am.
Hands full with Madame.

at the part where they say “We often aim to have puppies during the warm summer months which means you can go on your holidays without worrying about finding a dog sitter”

That’s a great idea… I won’t have to worry about finding a minder for my dog, I’ll just send her off to a stranger’s house, for more than a month, to give birth….

Ah, I see. Sorry. Overzealous campaigning on my part

Mad innit that some breeds sell for ££££ and others are literally thrown away like trash.

Sorry if I am being dim but can’t something be done about this?? You’re not telling me this is legal?

They certainly are very handsome dogs. Yes, it really is crazy what people are prepared to pay for certain dogs and not others.

A quick google reveals that despite claiming to be licensed Cornish Doodles isn't.https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/business-trading-and-licences/licences-and-street-trading/dog-breeders-register/ it seems that they did have a one year license that expired in Feb this year. https://www.animal-licensing.uk/operator/cornish-doodles-germoe-15372.html

Fuck me! I was sort of joking earlier when I said it would appeal to people as free dog sitters for holidays. I didn't realise they actually used that as a marketing point.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Tax contributions crossed my mind too. I'd never heard of paying VAT on a puppy either. A quick Google says the breeder has to be making over £90k before VAT becomes applicable. I wonder if that's £90k each.

Shuuuussshhhhh!!!
My DDs have. Or greyhounds. A herd. I accidentally let them have a herd of Guinea Pigs (all rescues). I can’t do that again 🤣

ETA DDs are responsible adults btw, not little children, and both of them worked at the rescue that we brought home all the elderly piggies from. They lived a life of luxury here. Our last one crossed the rainbow bridge last month at almost eight years old - I luffed them all of course but had to pretend to be grumpy about it to try to stem the inward flow of small rodents 🤣 (I used to secretly go and have a cuddle every day…)

Well, if the figures estimated here are anywhere near accurate then they qualify for VAT registration.
But their business doesn’t seem to show their VAT registration number (I can’t see it anyway), which would not be legal….
Anyone can report any business or individual for suspected Tax evasion btw, anonymously, if they genuinely believe that is what is happening.

The fact they have VAT on them suggests they are making over £90k from them, definitely not a hobby.

I know someone whose Bernedoodle bitch was bought at a massive reduction under those terms- 3 litters of puppies would be bred from her at their cost in terms of vet bills and they send the bitch back to the breeder 2 weeks before delivery and get her back when the pups are weaned at 6 weeks.
It’s very sad and now I have my own dog I cannot imagine not having them for 8 weeks during what must be a very stressful time for them- and then doing that again twice! It would be heartbreaking.

VAT payers my arse!

neither the company or the greedy f”cker who is alleged to own it are registered at Companies House from what I can see

The best you can say for this arrangement is that at least the dogs live better lives than the ones who spend their time in kennel runs in crowded barns.

That doesn't make it right, and I wouldn't buy a puppy from this sort of situation.

I also can't imagine being willing to hand over either of my dogs to go and whelp elsewhere. And what happens if a bitch gets ill, or develops a long-term condition? What then?

Just grim.

It’s like they want you to have the expense and responsibility for the animals and they get all the profit (bar £500). Who pays for the annual shots and other health needs and insurance? What happens if the dog get ill or hit by a car etc? And four litters is the max.
Only do it if your REALLY trust the breeder

at least the dogs live better lives than the ones who spend their time in kennel runs in crowded barns

Do they though? Of course that is also appalling and unacceptable. But those dogs know no different. These dogs are taken away from their ‘loving’ family and comfortable home at one of the most stressful times of their lives and dumped with people they do not know. Then, just when they may be settling again, are sent back again. And presumably this could happen to them more than once in their lifetime. It’s barbaric.

@EdithStourton usually it's written into the contracts that the 'onus' is on the owner (not the breeder) to pay for any health related issues including any that come about as a result of the pregnancy. Not sure how they would hold up in court (a bit like regular puppy contracts), but it's very sneakily done.

And likewise, they often have clauses that say if there is anything wrong with the puppies that they are returned to live with the bitch...who by then is often back in her own house rather than with the breeder.

The whole thing is absolutely awful. And sorry to say @VanGoSunflowers there's literally nothing to be done. As long as people are willing to pay for these puppies and turn a blind eye, then the RSPCA and other organisations (which are horribly snowed under) will ignore it because sadly Edith is right...10 months out of the year the bitches have a 'better life' than lots of other dogs. It doesn't make it right, or palatable though and it's still abusive in my eyes.

@BigWig78 the problem with sending the bitch away once the puppies are weaned (as your friend does and as this place does) is that the puppies then miss out on significantly valuable training and education at mums paws. Weeks 6-8 are some of the most informative weeks a puppy can have. It's the the time they learn about interaction with older dogs, boundaries, house training, appropriate behaviour in the house etc. They don't learn this from other puppies or even from other dogs in the household - they watch mum and learn from mum. And by taking mum away you're more likely to have a litter that are prone to some significant, unpleasant, behavioural issues.

And by 6 weeks most bitches aren't even really ready to say goodbye to their puppies. Mine certainly wouldn't be - they're running away from the little bastards left, right and centre, of course but they still spend the majority of their time with their puppies and they're typically incredibly watchful and protective over them. I take my puppies for injections at about 6 weeks and I always have to take the bitch with me because she won't let the puppies out of her sight. I can't imagine wrenching her away from them.

Weaning does not equate to puppies or mum being ready to be separated. As with everything to do with dogs: just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

I have to say, kennel type working dogs or not, anyone who does this knows shockingly little about dog breed, dog and puppy welfare, and the humane and ethical way to raise a litter.