Should we return the puppy after our older dog became stressed?

[MiniPastry21]

We have a resident dog, almost 5 years old, never had an issue with her whatsoever.

We got a new puppy, almost 11 weeks old, 5 days ago but we are already considering giving her back.

We knew it was going to be an adjustment for our resident dog, but no-one could have ever predicted how the last 5 days have gone.

Resident dog is nearly always stressed out and on alert and has become very guarded over whatever item she has in his mouth at that moment in time and has actually lightly bitten an adult in the house which has never happened before.

There are a couple of children in the house and we are extremely worried that if the puppy stays and the stress levels remain, that there is every chance that our resident dog could seriously bite someone.

The puppy has to go back doesn’t she?

Will the breeder take her back?

Does the resident dog have areas of their own? Space that the puppy cannot go into and protected favourite toys etc?

I would scale things back before returning pup if it was me...keep pup in one room, other dog has full access to house and gradually allow them to adjust.

Lots of fuss and play for other dog, keep to their normal routine and slowly let them spend time together on neutral territory and with lots of time apart at first.

I would try this myself before returning pup. But only you know what the situation is like and if this would be an option to try first.

I got a puppy end of Dec and my existing dog wasn’t impressed. I’d say it took 3 months for them to bond and they’re good friends now. But older dog was so stressed she had an acute attack of heammoraghic diahorrhea which was expensive at the vets. We got a large puppy pen and could put puppy in there to give the older dog breaks. Supervised closely at other times. Puppy crated at night time. It will improve.

Your first instinct is to return the puppy so that suggests that you didn't research before getting the puppy to learn what normal behaviour from a resident dog is likely to be when a puppy enters the home.

I'd start there before making any decisions. I'm sad for the puppy.

Yes, you need to return the puppy. There’s a resident dog not being happy and then there’s biting a human.

The problem with keeping a puppy in this situation is not only are you damaging your older dog, you could end up damaging the puppy - causing fear or anxiety over other dogs due to your older dogs aggression.

Nope. Give it time. The place I worked got a new puppy and one of the dogs were not happy about it. Growled and barked. After a while they settled in fine.

Second thread this week in my active feed on returning puppy to the breeder. I swear this only happens on mumsnet. I have had dogs all my life and never in my 40 something years of living have I met someone or heard about someone wanting to return a puppy. It’s probably more difficult to return a faulty handbag that an animal! So messed up!

It's very sad. People need to do research and have commitment to things, especially another life they have brought into their home which is dependent on them for so many things.

I'm going to be quiet now. I get too worked up and I've not had coffee, yet.

It’s definitely not just a Mumsnet thing

If it was just barking and growling, of course I know this is normal behaviour and would settle down, it’s the fact that it’s escalated to actually biting that concerns me in a dog that has been placid her whole life

How much time are you expecting your resident dog to spend around the puppy? After only a few weeks they should be mostly separated and someone should always be supervising and ready to step in and remove the puppy when they’re being too much.

Sigh. Another one that's got a puppy and hasn't a clue how to manage and thought it'd be all plain sailing. Did you not do any research beforehand about integrating a new puppy into a household with an existing dog? Has your older dog had the opportunity to meet puppies before so you could observe his behaviour?

Unfortunately, because you are clearly out of your depth here, the puppy has to be returned. Hopefully you chose a decent breeder who actually will take the pup back and not Dave down the road making an extra buck on the side.

Poor dogs.

It’s the mark of a bad breeder and/or owner competence/ arrogance.

It happens more than you’d think, just most people don’t post about their mistakes on social media.

It’s easy to be critical of OP as she’s screwed the pooch on this, but the bulk of responsibility rests on the negligent breeder because I bet my house the breeder probably didn’t ask anything about Ops existing dog, or even try and meet them in a neutral location beforehand (both things I do to gauge whether the dog is suitable for a puppy - owners tend to be woefully blind about their dogs failings).

You need to give the older dog space to be on its own and adjust. For example sleeping in another room in the daytime without a puppy bouncing around it. The resident dog has had its life completely turned upside down and had a shock. Things will calm down but it will take time and patience. Make fuss of the resident dog with long walks and treats. Speak to a behaviourist nurse at your vets with video evidence if you are really concerned.

Did you do gradual introduction? Spaces for older dog away from Puppy?

we had our puppy in one space, a room with a bed, crate, puppy pads etc allowing original pet free roam. Still have one door gate to separate if needed.

The attitudes on MN towards dogs make me absolutely despair, honestly.

Sadly, because of having both rescued and fostered, I know this ignorance IRL exists too.

I am known for being harsh on here with irresponsible owners, but I have zero sympathy with anyone who gets a puppy and then moans how hard it is and wants to return them. It upsets me so much to hear about dogs that get ruined by owners who get puppies and can't meet their needs, don't train them or manage the dynamics between dogs and children (and other pets, come to that) appropriately and then the dog develops bad behaviours and the next minute people are telling the owner to have it killed "for the sake of their children".

Dogs are not children. They need to live and be treated and respected and loved as companion animals, not as "siblings" or babies or little kids, or children's toys. They need training, and you need strategies to manage the dynamics between dogs and kids. Puppies are hard work, they aren't just a bundle of cuteness that come ready made to entertain the family when it's convenient and sit quietly in the corner when it isn't. If people are not prepared for hard work, they should not get a puppy. It absolutely adds to the mental and physical load, especially with children and other pets in the mix.

The first time I added a puppy to an existing dog, I had to keep them separated for the first three months. It was a total shock to me, as my dog loved every dog he met and always wanted to play. We used stair gates, crates and play pens to keep them apart. We took them into the garden together on lead, so they could see each other from a distance. It was hard work and stressful.

The second time, I knew it would take a while. My adult dog liked saying hello to dogs she met, but only ever played with dogs she knew really well. We didn't have to keep them separated, but adult dog had puppy free places she could escape to if she wanted. It took them three weeks to become friends.

However, I wouldn't say either existing dog was overly stressed by the addition of a puppy. The first one hated the puppy, but was still his normal happy self around the house. The second dog predictably took time to get used to the puppy, who had been carefully chosen after discussing with the breeder which one would be the best fit with my dog's personality. Neither showed any negative behaviours towards people.

You can get calming sprays, Dap diffusers etc which might help your older dog in the short term, if you think the situation would improve given time and careful management. Only you know how bad the situation is and can decide if it's manageable or not. There are no guarantees that the dogs will ever be friends.

e xm8 ijIf you do decide to return the puppy, I'd do it sooner rather than later. It wouldn't be fair to the puppy to keep him for a few weeks/months and then return him.

Our ddog was 6 when we got a dpuppy recently... It takes time. You need a baby gate so ddog 1 has a retreat.

My placid, bullet proof Labrador only ever showed “aggression” (more noise than real intent) once in his life and that was when a family members puppy was on his face constantly, so we managed it very carefully until the puppy was trained.

My niece took on a second dog (both rescues) and it took the best part of a year before they could be left alone safely unsupervised.

Both these scenarios are not uncommon. You committed to a puppy you need to be prepared to manage interactions between the dogs until they settle, it could take weeks or even many months. If did not prepare for this do I hope you got from a responsible breeder who has a waiting list so the puppy has a chance for a good home.

Lord knows where those extra letters came from at the beginning of my last paragraph.
It should have started with 'If you do decide.....'

What breeds are they?

In short, yes.

People should have to pass checks before they are allowed a puppy. I am sick to death of seeing post after post on this forum of people wanting to return or get rid of puppies for various reasons.

Can I just ask anyone out there who is thinking of getting a puppy to actually sit down and have a long, hard think about your current situation- family, other animals, time commitments, commitment to house training, ability to accept that puppies nip and are destructive, whether you will be leaving pup alone regularly etc BEFORE you get a dog.
If you have a stress head resident dog, perhaps think that the arrival of a new puppy might send them into stress overload.

The first time I added a puppy to an existing dog it went smoothly. Then when puppy was 8 and existing dog had died I introduced another puppy. Bloody nightmare, older dog hated it. I kept them separate for some months and it settled down . But never again. You can't predict the outcome. I'm an experienced dog owner, not a novice.