Beyond Adolescence - part 4

[SpanielsGalore]

Didn't realise we were that close to the end of part 3. 😂

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Glad things went okish at the vets. Fingers crossed it's nothing sinister.
Poor TD holding a grudge. 😂 I've not known a dog do that before. You'll have to get your DH to take him for any future appointments.

@Silverbirchleaf I did say that to DH. Went down like a lead balloon 😂

@SpanielsGalore DH can have him permanently! I am incredibly upset and annoyed. I'm used to Clem ignoring me and pretending I don't exist, but from Twatdog its too much!

I do wonder if male dogs are wimpier than female dogs. He certainly is!

On the plus side, lovely weather again today (not too hot) so I'll be able to get in my three walks a day for the foreseeable which means I can lose weight and then eat cake. 😁I've missed cake!

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I think we were saying before that we suspect males are bigger wimps at the vets than females! I’ve been enjoying the ‘differences between goldens and labs’ thread actually, I’m ashamed to say my ignorance had me believing they would be fairly similar in a lot of ways!

Hope everyone is having a good start to their weekend. Pablo’s evening walk yesterday was hilarious! I’d thought his training had really slipped as he’d gone almost deaf on walks again but I was having to actively tell him to leave my side! Walked to heel past so many dogs, and even the flock (is that the correct collective noun?) of ducks that he chased after the other day that nearly resulted in both of us falling in the lake. Now do we think it’s a coincidence that it also happened to be the first walk where I was using his new, tasty training treats? I don’t 😂
I find it hilarious because in my head I’m thinking “I must be doing this wrong - I need to change how I train him… or wait 6 months until he hopefully grows out of it, agh what if he never grows out of it? Will I ever be able to give him full off lead freedom in the appropriate places <spirals etc>” and it turns out pooch & mutt beef jerky was the answer. I swear this dog is actively teaching me not to take life so seriously!

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks How's TD today? Has he stopped sulking yet ?

@VanGoSunflowers What a good boy Pablo can be is! P is 5 and still chases ducks. I need to invest in some beef jerky.

In my search for reasonably priced, low fat food, I have bought a bag of plant protein and insect food. The pieces are tiny though. The dogs could literally inhale them. K had some for breakfast, so I'll see how she gets on.
I think I worry too much about food. N has James Wellbeloved and she looks good on it.

@VanGoSunflowers I'd be interested to know what @tizwozliz @Idstillratherbepaddleboarding and @Silverbirchleaf think, but I've definitely found (and been told by lab owners) that labs are far more robust/resilient and far less 'sensitive' than Golden Retrievers (although still sensitive). It's not necessarily a huge difference, but it does effect the way you train them, raise them and handle them.

Honestly, in terms of sensitivity I've often thought Golden Retrievers were slightly more like Cocker Spaniels than Labs! At least definitely the ones I know and speaking to various owners over the years.

Physically they're similar - similar exercise needs, similar size(ish) and build - but personality wise I think they're very different. It's one of the reasons why when you were looking at what dog to get I recommended labs - they're temperament is just so lovely and stable in a way I don't necessarily associate with the average Golden (not that Golden's aren't lovely, of course, but the mania and sensitivity is challenging).

So glad to hear that Pablo was a good boy though! Sometimes you do have to change up the treats and do things differently just to keep them guessing and not taking you (and the treats) for granted.

@SpanielsGalore welcome your views on Golden's being more sensitive like Cockers/Spaniels!

Twatdog is talking to me, but he won't let me remove his bandage so it's now halfway down his leg exposing where he had to be shaved...and looking very grotty. Every time I move to quickly he runs away. Twat.

I'm sure we spend most of our time trying to find the best food for our dogs! I've given up given Hen anything other than human food now. She's refusing all different types of dog food. So for breakfast she had chicken breast, left over bolognese and some lily's kitchen biscuits which I crushed up and then sprinkled over the top. She's still fighting fit and exercising as she usually would, but her appetite is definitely slowing down a bit.

@SpanielsGalore I am very thankful he is so food motivated 😂
Definitely sympathise with you about worrying about food too much. It’s one of the reasons I persevered with the current kibble we use because it suits him so much! I don’t mind switching up the wet food so much though. It threw me for a loop when he had a couple of days of not really wanting it as I never thought labs could be fussy but mine definitely can be. Not to a point where it stops him eating though of course! I’d never heard of insect dog food before!

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I definitely see what you mean about not being sensitive, Pablo definitely isn’t a sensitive boy at all. I’ve never witness a sulk from him anyhow. And I definitely find changing the treats up helps. We accidentally stumbled on a different walk around my neighbourhood that is kind of perfect for the next level up in terms of distractions - it’s busier, with a lake with ducks on etc but I haven’t witnessed one unruly dog on that route strangely!

Taking him off to some local woods soon, I bumped in to another lab owner the other day that told me about it. It’s only 15 minutes away so I am looking forward to that.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I’ve never owned a goldie but I do think there’s a common assumption that they’re a hairier version of a lab. There’s also a lack of awareness that there are different types of labs , working/American and English/show (including me!). I don’t know how long we’ve had American labs in the UK, but we’ve all been brought up on the Andrex puppy, Crufts and Guide dogs, so people see a placid, friendly dog, and don’t realise that the American version need stimulus (looking at you Dog!).

@Silverbirchleaf Labradors, like cocker spaniels, started as dual purpose dogs and gradually divided into working and show strains over years of selective breeding. Google says it was around the 1950s.

Springers and cockers were also the same breed many years ago. Their purpose was decided by their size. The smaller ones hunted woodcock and the larger ones used to flush out game.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I've always thought GR and cockers are very similar. But I'm not experienced enough to back that up with any real evidence. We had one as a family dog when I was younger, but it's not the same as having your own as an adult.

@VanGoSunflowers Insect based food is a growing market. I have read it's supposed to be good for dogs with allergies as it's a novel protein. I'm trying it because it's only 8% fat and £50 for 12 kg. The Green Pantry is 6% fat, but £68 for 10 kg. And the weight is dropping off P, so she needs nearly double the RDA.

@Silverbirchleaf I didn't realise your Ddog was American line! But agreed on the show/working difference. Lots of people seem very surprised. We get a lot of working line Goldie's into the rescue...we also get quite a few that look like Twatdog and I am 99.9% sure many of them share the same sire as he does. Which wouldn't surprise me - his sire was a massive dick (lovely dog, but his puppies are not for the faint hearted).

@VanGoSunflowers it's funny how you can suddenly discover new places that you've lived near for years! How was his afternoon walk?

@SpanielsGalore Glad it's not just me who thinks that! They're both very sensitive in a way I just don't necessarily associate with labs. I said on the other thread there if there was a 'retriever' breed I had to say were similar to Goldie's it would be Flatties - both sensitive and stupid.

Hope everyone had a lovely morning walk! We went to Eastbourne for a change, which was lovely and really quiet. DDogs were very good but I did have to wrangle a dead fish out of DWS mouth. She tried to swallow it whole so I shoved my hand down her throat and pulled it back out. She's a very good dog, really. Despite her nefarious, nasty, ways

I had an interesting heatwave week. Had to drive to Suffolk for a big family shindig. It was the first time doing a mega big drive with Merry, on my own, it’s about a 6 hour drive, but she was good as gold. She had a whale of a time playing with all the different extended family and new friends, the B&B we had was a 300 year old cottage with a massive garden so it was really cool and lovely. And she had a great time swimming in the sea at Dunwich. I had a swim as well, until I put my hand on a jellyfish and legged it back onto the beach as quick as my little legs could carry me!

On Thursday took her to the vet to be weighed for her new wormer tablets and the nutritionist came out to look at her and said she is underweight. I was getting a bit worried the way people keep asking me if she is crossed with a whippet or greyhound, I just assumed she would pad out a bit given time. They have recommended a higher fat food, so I have the opposite problem to most dog owners! Merry will be happy though as now everyone in the household is giving her extra treats at every opportunity.

@Struckbylightning Sounds like you both had a lovely time.

That's interesting about the food. (Not that I'm obsessed with dog food or anything.) What % fat was Merry on and what did the nutritionist recommend you change to? P is becoming skin and bone now she's on 6% fat food. So now I am researching low fat ways to gain weight, without feeding double the RDA.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Haven't been to Eastbourne for years. I doubt it's changed much.
My lot are always eating something rank. I've given up now and leave them to it.

We had lovely morning walks and got home just before the rain started.

@SpanielsGalore is the insect food insect flavoured?? Is that a daft question sorry 😂
Sorry to hear P is dropping weight and you’re back to researching dog nutrition! I feel like you could write a dissertation on it at this stage!
On the ‘eating rank things’ front, I’m sure I saw somewhere that them eating things like cow pat and duck poo etc is good for their gut 🤢

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks The walk didn’t go quite to plan - I’d been to that woods several times but the route I usually do is past a quarry and some abandoned farm houses and fields. I parked at this lovely picturesque church I didn’t know existed and went in to a different part of the woods and it was absolutely stunning in there, only problem is that it’s attached to a Barracks and the red flags were up denoting live fire so we left again and did our usual route. I did look up the permitted firing times online and there are several days you can go after 4.30pm so I’m going to try that one of the days as it really was beautiful in there. I’m sure the guy that told me about it says he goes in whether the flags are up or not but I didn’t particularly feel comfortable essentially trespassing while training was going on! Although it seems it confined to what’s considered a ‘danger zone’ and we could avoid it… all the red flags looked too official for me!

@Struckbylightning I am glad Merry was so well behaved for you! She must be burning calories at a rate of knots! I remember you saying before that she was quite highly strung at home, has she settled down any?

There are a lot of canals where I live so I am considering walking Pablo along some of the towpaths. Although I’m not sure how he will react to large bodies of water next to us! If there are rivers or streams that get gradually deeper he seems comfortable enough, he loves paddling but hates swimming. I have visions of him not realising how deep it is and falling in! I may be being a little over the top?

@VanGoSunflowers I read that as 'there are a lot of cannibals where I live'. 😂

Even if he falls in, you can pull him out and I doubt he would to be fair - he seems (from what you've said) to be a rather sensible chap!

I'd have left as well!!! No way am I risking being shot at. Plus managing dog(s) + dodging bullets does not seem like a fun way to spend my time!

@Struckbylightning I bet Merry is beyond please she's getting fattened up! It's hard when they're so young as they can seem so skinny but then suddenly just bulk out. What food have they recommended?

Glad to hear you and Merry had a lovely time! What's she like getting out the car? Does she wait for you to release her or is she ready to launch?

@SpanielsGalore It was beautiful tbh! I would just leave them to it, but they all have quite sensitive stomachs so I don't want to risk it.

Hope everyone had a lovely morning walk. It was really hot and humid here (drenched in sweat wearing a short and t-shirt), so dogs only got 45 minutes (about three miles at my pace). Now they're all panting in the house whilst I sit on the patio, with my coffee, listening to a 'L&D' session at work (which I promise I am paying attention to...).

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I haven’t come across any cannibals… that I know of!

I will test the canal walk at some point! I just hope he doesn’t bolt after any unsuspecting ducks.

Weirdly, I was more concerned about being shouted at by a steward than I was about being shot 😂 I could hear the gun fire, it sounded pretty far away. Not that I know all that much about the Army’s training techniques. But I doubt we would have been helpful 😂

@VanGoSunflowers Having heard and read some stories about things going wrong during live fire practices, there's no way I'd risk entering if red flags are flying.

And yes, it's a daft question. 😂 I have eaten neither insects nor dog food, so I couldn't say what flavour it is. It smells nice though. This food is more plant based, with a side of insects. I was persuaded by the nettles, blueberries and spinach description.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks Still raining here, so I will also be drenched when I brave walking the dogs.

I did go through a phase with my old dog of obsessing about her food, but I tied myself in absolute knots, my maths is totally shit so I can’t even think about the % of the nutritional value and all that, so I decided not to overthink it. Merry was on IAMS puppy but since turning 1 we started getting the Wagg active dog kibble. It’s 8% fat I think, and I top it with Butchers tinned gross stuff for added interest. She always enjoys it, her poops are fine and of course her energy level is boundless! She is just so bony, it’s like cuddling a washboard.

The nutritionist gave me 3 suggestions; Skinners young active, Purim’s pro plan and Dr John Gold. I haven’t yet decided what to go for, not least because of course we have recently bought a Massive bag of food. She wants to have her weighed once a month to keep an eye. She also mentioned spaying…

@VanGoSunflowers she is still pretty active at home, but I think there is a gradual but definite calming down. She can still get into mischief if I ignore her too much. She ate half a pack of butter the other day when my DS got distracted mid-sandwich. Maybe that’ll fatten her up..

I also would have left the firing range!
You should try the canal. That is one of my favourite walks round here. You are kind of ‘hemmed in’ so less chance of galloping off into the woods. Though I guess that is just my daft dog and Pablo wouldn’t do such a thing. It’s also fairly straight so you can see possible distractions approaching and be prepared. I used that to teach Merry to stay to one side and not to chase bikes and joggers. I also used the canal walk to try to teach ‘watch’ when there were ducks etc, although there may possibly have been one or two incidents of f duck chasing. Luckily they can fly, and it gave the fishermen a good laugh. There are a few spots where she can get in and out of the water, but she seems to be sensible enough not to fling herself in where it’s too high or steep. Having said that, my previous dog, when she was a pup, launched herself into the canal basin. It was totally covered in duck weed and I think she thought it was grass. I could just about reach her harness by lying flat and hauled her out, but it gave us all (including her) a hell of a fright! And a good laugh afterwards. I imagine Pablo is sensible enough not to do that!

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks she’s really good in the car. She waits to be invited to jump out. Not sure why as I don’t remember teaching that! She will then drag my arm off once she’s out and realises we are off to the woods/park/wherever. At the end of the walk she walks beautifully to heel, the outward journey is still a work in progress…

Insect based food sounds interesting. Pippin used to hoover up the mealworms that I put out for the birds, so there must be something in that. My son has eaten bugs in Thailand. Bleugh!

Those of you who have rain - can you send some to Somerset please. We are parched!!

@Struckbylightning I looked at Dr John Silver for P, as it's only 6% fat. But the meat content was so low, I couldn't bring myself to buy it. The Gold is only 9% fat, so hardly seems worth changing to that from the Wagg.

When I needed to get weight on P, I added extras to her food. She had a tin of sardines in olive oil, an egg cup of soaked oats and a glug of olive oil every day. Plus three eggs a week. I'm now looking for low fat equivalents.

Talking of food - does anyone know of a white fish based food, other than Green Pantry? All the fish flavoured ones seem to be salmon now. The nutritionist said not to feed P salmon or chicken. Unfortunately I didn't ask why.

K and I had an interesting walk today. We went to a local tourist beauty spot. When we got to the top, there was a woman having her photograph taken. Erica Roe sprang to mind. 😳 She dived out of sight. I said, "Nice day for it." to the photographer and carried on my way. 😂

@SpanielsGalore that’s interesting, thanks. I agree only 1% more hardly seems worth it! Did you give P a tin of sardines every day? I had a neighbour who adored Pippin, she would give her sardines whenever she met her. It used to give her the runs unfortunately. Did you cook the eggs or give them raw? I might try that for a while.

Oh my, I hope the model was using a good sun screen! 😂

@SpanielsGalore there is a company called Fish4dogs. Have you looked at them? Looks terribly healthy!

I think salmon and chicken and are the most common things that dogs are intolerant to. On the giant list of things Bill is probably intolerant to, salmon is the next thing I'm probably going to remove, which is a shame, as of course he loves it 🙄

@Struckbylightning I did give the sardines every day. I fed the eggs raw as I'm lazy, but hard boiled works just as well. Plain cooked pasta is good for weight gain too, but doesn't have much (if any) nutritional value.

I'd forgotten about Fish4dogs, so thank you for that. Unfortunately, I've just checked their ingredients and they all have salmon in them. Which is putting the fat content up around the 13% mark.

@Bupster I did not know that about salmon. It's a shame it seems to be taking over from white fish, as it has quite a high fat content in comparison.

Pablo is intolerant to chicken and fish. Fish is definitely the worse one of the two though. I remember trying some Millie’s fish treats and he terrible runny poos afterwards.

@SpanielsGalore have you looked at Millie’s Wolfheart for white fish dog food?

@VanGoSunflowers Just had a look at Millies and they don't appear to do a white fish option. But they do have two low fat foods, which could be options. Thank you.

@Struckbylightning perhaps you could send Merry my way and she can teach mine about walking nicely to the car at the end of the walk...it's still a race into the boot/back seat with mine. But I suppose at least they all get in now, which is better than it was a few months ago! 😫