Look don't touch policy

[Poodlelover25]

I have recently retired and have been researching breeders as I want to get a puppy. My main criteria are ethical breeders and full health testing. I visited a breeder who appears to meet the criteria. Her dog was not pregnant (the pregnancy is planned for later this year) but she will not put you on the waiting list unless she has met you . She says this is to avoid her dogs going to puppy farms.

I met the dog but the breeder has a "look don't touch policy". The dog was polite but totally focussed on her. Is this policy usual or something I should be concerned about? She hasn't asked for any money. Overall, the woman seemed eccentric but genuine

So it's hard to know without more information. Where did you meet her and the dog - was this at her home, or out and about?

It could be for a variety of reasons that she doesn't want people touching her dog;

• Not trusting people not to install bad behaviours
• Her dog is predisposed to being mouthy/bitey
• Her dog isn't friendly with strangers

It is odd, but it's not unusual.

Personally, I don't let people touch my dogs when out and about. But I also don't hold my dogs back when potential buyers do meet them ahead of litters - in fact I make a deliberate point of not holding my dogs back (if they want to jump, they jump etc) so people really understand what having the breed is like.

Did she ask you any questions? Ask you to fill out a questionaire etc? (Good breeders will bombard you with questions).

For what it's worth I don't put people on my waiting list until they've sent me financial records, a video of their home along with details of everyone in the house, answered my questionaire (which has about 30 questions on it) and everyone in the home has met me and my dogs in a neutral location. I also don't take a deposit until the litter is born and they have met a puppy either. If she hasn't asked for any money, that's a good sign IMO, as is wanting to meet you beforehand.

I should say - is the 'look, don't touch' aimed at you or the dog? 😀I.E you could look but not touch,or the dog could?

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks We had a phone call which was a mini interview and then she agreed to meet me. We then had a meeting at her business (a livery yard) which was essentially her interviewing me. She says that the dogs live in her home - she has 5. She also showed me the bitch and potential sires' health certificates and went through her contract which includes things like any puppies bred from her dogs can't be kennel club registered unless the breeding has been agreed with her first. She does a lot of training with her dogs so that may be why she has the policy.

Our breeder registered our dog with the KC but as a male dog, we absolutely were not going to breed from him and he was also rather large for the breed so not suitable. I think the KC have these dogs registered with kennel names but tagged as not for breeding. Unscrupulous people could of course. Essentially only the best should be sires!

We went through meet the bitch and puppy but nothing else formally. No waiting lists but she was a regular at breed dog shows so was trustworthy in my view. I was asked about our home etc and breeder organised all relevant Heath tests and vaccinations. We got him at 12 weeks. It wasn’t that onerous but our friends were (correctly) refused a puppy by another breeder (Rhodesian Ridgeback) as they were inexperienced dog owners. This was our first dog but we chose a suitable breed!

Essentially no breeder can control everything and future off record breeding is down to the new owner. It’s not that these dogs are going to puppy farms but more like “backstreet” breeding. Most people just want a pet though!

If you want a pet (as opposed to working dog) then it is very important that the mother (less likely to meet the deadbeat dad!) is a friendly dog. Beware any dog that is wary, let alone aggressive, even if it’s the minutest of growls.

You should also see the mother with the puppies, and how she relates to you then.

Look but don’t touch? Hmmm, that is odd. Obviously the strange human should ask if a dog is friendly before touching, but I would not really favour a breeding mother who could not be given a friendly pat. My dog’s mother flew into my lap!

Look but don’t touch? Hmmm, that is odd. Obviously the strange human should ask if a dog is friendly before touching, but I would not really favour a breeding mother who could not be given a friendly pat. My dog’s mother flew into my lap!

@MaturingCheeseball it does feel somewhat odd, which is why i posted; however, she did come across as eccentric. The dogs did not appear nervous or aggressive, but they were not interested in me or my adult daughter who came with me. Buying a dog seems to be a minefield!.

There is another breeder who meets my criteria. So far, for this breeder, I have just had to fill in a very lengthy questionnaire. They have said that they will be in touch later this year when the dog has a confirmed pregnancy.

@Poodlelover25 tbh there's no harm in asking her why you weren't allowed to pat the dog - as PPs have said, dam's should be friendly and interacting with you is an ideal way for you to make sure she has a stable, friendly, temperament.

I imagine her response will be very telling as to why she has that rule. And if she's any sort of good breeder, she won't object to being asked. If her response is anything other than polite, you'll know to avoid, and depending on the kind of response she gives you'll also know whether to avoid.

I had a woman last year ask me why my dog was so skinny when she came to visit the puppies - she was clearly really worried about my neglecting the dam. She looked so embarrassed when I explained that in particularly large litters it's incredibly normal for the dam to get very thin before bulking up again (my girl had 11 puppies). No offence was taken my end - if anything I was glad she cared (and had big enough balls to ask, because questioning a breeder can be really intimidating).

I'm guessing it's a poodle she's breeding from (based on your name)? If so, she is really right to be cautious about dodgy backyard breeders - far too many, particularly bitches, are used and abused by people trying to fool breeders into thinking they just want family pets.

Financial records? What do you ask them for ? Bank statements? Proof of savings? I’ve never had anyone ask me this when I’ve got a puppy is it a new thing ?

@NotToldasNotrelevant people have tried to lie in the past about where they live, or their financial situation, and I've only found out through accident.

Dog ownership is expensive, and just because you can afford to buy one doesn't mean you can afford the upkeep of ownership. Yes, financial situations change and we can't predict everything, but what sort of breeder would I be if I sent a puppy off to someone who couldn't afford insurance (for example).

More importantly, I've had people try and lie about where they live before. I did an AMA thread where this came up - people have given me parents or relatives addresses and do the video call of that house. And then, when it comes to bank statement time...different address but allegedly the same owner. Most noticeably someone had claimed to live in one area and shown me a reasonable 3-bed semi, when they sent over their bank statement...1 bed flat.

I am incredibly cautious (more-so than most breeders - although it sounds like OP's breeder is very cautious as well) about ensuring my puppies go to the right homes. In my opinion it's a small ask. I let people into my home - my daughters home - to view my puppies and there's an implicit level of trust that comes with that. If they aren't willing to share a bank statement or payslip with me - and can't trust that I would be responsible with that information - why should I trust them with one of my puppies or inside my home?

I see your point ! I just hadn’t ever come across financial checks before but it makes sense

And this craziness is why i would not get a dog from these sorts of breeders, talk about going over the top, all my dogs have been word of mouth, mostly from farmers breeding their sheepdog and one or more is not suitable as a working dog but make a great pet in the right home

Hmm. Word of mouth dogs in my village are the nutters. Untrainable. However I’m not sending a dog breeder my bank statements! Stuff that. Overpriced dogs no doubt lead to people not having the money. It’s ludicrous!

Yep, me either. Proof of address with a utility bill/council tax etc, sure if they must, but bank statements or payslips absolutely not.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks you let people into your home because you want to sell your puppies, it's not out of some kind of kindness. It's good you care where the puppies go, but you're still selling them for profit.

Thankfully, I have enough good people queued up to buy my puppies I wouldn't need to consider those people who wouldn't want to (such as you and PPs) anyway.😂So it's no skin off my nose if you or others aren't willing to. Just less people to waste my time on.

But, more importantly, feel free to add your dog breeding knowledge to this thread to help OP...

Bank statements?!

I was on a breeder’s list and her behaviour crossed a line. For a start she had named the puppies and instructed that people were not to change them. Now obviously a dog has an officially registered KC name (if pedigree) but it was ridiculous to demand that Fido could not be called Rover (as it is my dog has about 50 at least names!). She also wanted to allocate puppies… now there are pros and cons here but frankly I want to see who picks me!

Then…. this breeder knocked on my front door quite unexpectedly and wanted to conduct a house inspection and see my family. Except it was at the height of covid lockdown!

Anyway that was that and I was removed from her shortlist. Good - got a wonderful dog from a careful but normal breeder.

The dogs in my village are mainly working gun dogs or poodle mixes - neither of which I want, so word of mouth is out.

These sort of breeders

You mean breeders who carry out all of the health checks available on their bitch. Not just the required ones. Choose carefully selected, fully health checked stud dogs. And thoroughly vet any prospective buyers.

It's a shame you consider having standards and caring about the breed to be 'over the top'. People like you are why puppy farms still exist.