Recall .. 98% perfect, 2% argh!! Help …

[Pleasedontdothat]

Most of the time my 3 year old Toller has brilliant recall - he’ll be at the other end of the field and when I call him he turns on a sixpence and comes hurtling back to me. However, sometimes when we see strange dogs out on walks he will not recall away from them. Most of the time it’s fine, he and the other dog/s will have a little play and then he’ll come back. But sometimes the other owner gets very shirty when I can’t call him away. This is only with off lead dogs - if I see another dog that’s on lead he goes on lead too. When we got him, we had two older dogs but sadly one died after being hit on the road (Rocky was a puppy at the time) and then we lost our older Toller to cancer last summer so he’s now an only dog. He missed out on a lot of adolescent socialisation as he was extremely ill when he was 5 months old and wasn’t able to mix with dogs outside the house for a long time, he’s also not been neutered on the vet’s advice. We live very rurally so we often don’t see anyone out on walks. If we go on a walk with another dog he’s fine and he’s fine going on group walks when he goes to stay with our dog boarder. I don’t know how to train for the situation when his recall breaks down - I could be waving a whole roast chicken at him and he wouldn’t care …

Same problem here. Eager for tips.

If he comes back to go on lead when you see an on-lead dog can’t you do the same with off-lead ones until you’ve established it’s okay?

That’s what I often do and will do from now on, however it’s not training him to recall away from other dogs and there will always be a time when I won’t see the other dog in time.

I don't rely on recall when we see other dogs in the park. Instead, I have worked on making him indifferent to dogs and making myself way more interesting. When he sees a dog, observes them, and comes back to me unprompted, I give him praises and sometimes a treat.

Okayyy but how? Other dogs are the most exciting thing in the world, partly because we don’t see many of them .. we play games, I get him to do tricks, I have toys and high value treats with me … they all mean absolutely nothing if there’s a strange dog around .., and if he’s always on lead the allure of other dogs becomes even greater ..

I have to admit I'm a bit confused now.

If he can be called away from on-lead dogs, that is training him to recall away from other dogs. If you mean you don't want to have to put him back on the lead - well, I'd say that's a small price to pay, to be honest.

I walk dogs for a living and always call my off-lead dogs away from others unless they're dogs we know well. Some will just come back and stay close but there are others who would run back so they just get popped on the lead for a minute or two.

If he won't recall back reliably around other dogs then attach a longline to his harness so you can stand on it and stop him from repeating the behaviour.

he’ll be at the other end of the field and when I call him he turns on a sixpence and comes hurtling back to me

This sounds far away and that's part of the issue imo. Ideally, he shouldn't be very far at all and he should be nervous of being too far away from you.

Dogs that are appropriately bonded don't want to lose their human. So in most cases, those that are willing to race away to a distance or those that refuse to recall in certain circumstances are usually supremely confident that you're going to be there, exactly where they left you, when they choose to return.

You need to break that confidence. The dog should be nervous of YOU disappearing, never the other way around. Teach them hide and seek. Make them find you, get more challenging as you practice. Let them lose you briefly when you hide, watch them start to panic. Make them realise that if they take their eye off you or they get too far, you're a flight risk...if they always have to keep one eye on you they're far less likely to pay attention to anyone else.

How often can't you call him away from another dog? Is it a daily occurrence or a once in a blue moon scenario?

It’s once in a blue moon … if we saw more dogs then it would probably happen more often but where we live it’s not an everyday occurrence

We have our own land which is securely fenced so when we’re walking around the fields at home he loves running and running. That’s ok because he’s never going to see another dog there unless it’s one of his friends. My older Toller was much less independent - he had an invisible elastic tether and if he got more than about 30m away he’d stop and come back. Rocky is blithely confident and happy to be further away especially in places he knows well.

If he can be called away from on-lead dogs, that is training him to recall away from other dogs. If you mean you don't want to have to put him back on the lead - well, I'd say that's a small price to pay, to be honest.

I can call him away from on-lead dogs because he doesn’t see them as a source of entertainment - they’re not interesting in the same way that off-lead dogs are

Then you need to keep him on a long line until he learns that off-lead dogs aren't a source of entertainment either.

The more he's allowed to practise the behaviour, the more ingrained it will be come.

It’s self reinforcing though isn’t it? He fails to recall and he gets rewarded with the holy grail of playing with other dogs. Every time he does it the behaviour gets reinforced. The only solution is to recall him and put him on the lead whenever you see any other dog on lead or off. Then if they consent to play teach him a release command so he knows that’s what he has to do to get that reward. At the moment he gets it for free.

My dog has the exact same issue and he’s 4 now so he hasn’t grown out of it. He just loves playing with other dogs and would probably love it if we had another one or two but I can barely cope with just him. I don’t think there’s any chance I could teach him to be indifferent to other dogs. He is much more interested in other dogs than in people. Therefore I have to manage him and I keep an eye out for others and the default is he’s on a long line and I only let him off if I can see that there’s no dogs he’s going to run after. He does get to play as we have some regular buddies (mostly female) who mutually enjoy playing and whose owners I know and I get him to give me eye contact and a nose boop before I let him off to play with them.

My dog has also learnt not to be interested in on lead dogs but he is still very interested in off lead ones and if they are running and playing then he considers that practically an invite to join in. I just have to make sure that they are far enough away that I can spot them first or recall him quick and put him on a lead. It’s the only way. He’s a big dog and some small dogs and their owners are scared of him so I exercise a lot of caution although I know that he is friendly and just wants to play. I do understand that other people have the right not to want him joining in (he doesn’t realise that and I doubt he ever will)

It's not the only way - you can keep him on a long-line clipped to his harness, so if you recall and he ignores you, you just need to stand on the long-line to stop him running further, then you reel him in on the line and reward him for being near you.

Unfortunately if he was to run up to an unfriendly on-lead dog he could easily end up in a fight, and it would be your fault for not having him under control.

In my previous post I did say that my default is to have him on a long line and I never let him go up to other dogs without permission on or off lead

There's nothing I can see in any your posts on this thread about you using a long line

Could you point it out if I've missed it please?

You haven't read The Pure's first post properly then. They clearly say the dog is on a long line and only let off if no other dogs are around.

I've re-read it several times and genuinely can't see it. Could you please point it out for me as I asked?

It says her dog is off-lead and that she can recall it from the other end of a field, and that she puts it on a lead when there are other on-lead dogs around. There's nothing in the OP where she says she uses a long line. I've even searched the word "long line" in my browser and it's not there.

I’m the OP not @ThePure and as it happens I did use a longline for ages but stopped as a) nobody uses them round here and it was annoying the occasional other walkers we saw and b) it seemed like overkill for the one time in a month it was useful

The Pure isn't the OP, so you are reading the wrong post.

The Pure's post at 12:36, second paragraph towards the end says they use a long line.

Thank you, I've got it now. I got mixed up with the two names having a P in it - my apologies both!

I'm just coming through the other side of this with my 2 year old Border Collie. I've found you need to make something even more exciting than other dogs. For my dog it is a squeaky strawberry toy. I act like an absolute wally with it during our walks. I encourage his stalk and eye, give lots of treats and praise, get him to catch me with it. I do all of this whether another a dog is around or not, so he knows that mum is always fun, not just when there is something more exciting around.

We do all that - I have a bag full of toys and treats - we play games, go in different directions, he gets rewarded for checking in and always for coming back with either a game or a treat. My friends and family all think his recall is fantastic… and it is .. apart from the occasional time when I can’t get him away from other off lead dogs. I think it’s partly the rarity - I haven’t yet found anything that can compete with the lure of some dogs - it’s not even every off lead dog 🤷‍♀️ we met a couple today - I saw them in time so got him on the lead then let him off when the other owner said they would be happy to say hello - hellos were said, a few seconds of playing and then everyone went on their way …

Following this with interest as I have the exact same issue with my 10 month old lab!