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[Coldcoffeekindamorning]

If one wanted to buy a dog, where would be the best place to look? What questions would one need to ask? Basically how do you go about thinking about getting a dog?

I live in the suburbs of a city and have a large garden. I have 2 young children (6 and 3), they absolutely love animals and are always gentle and cautious around them. I would quite like a medium-large dog (DH thinks a labrador or a retriever is the way to go) but the breed isn't so important as long as they fit in with our family and like to go on very long hilly walks outside. I've been looking at the cat and dog homes in our area but none of the dogs are suitable to live with preschool children and if I'm honest I would feel terrible taking a puppy from it's mother. I would like a dog that we can give a good home and welcome into the family but I don't have any experience of owning a dog. Any pointers or suggestions or all the things I haven't thought about?

We have a 3yr old retriever who we got when our kids were 6 and 3! We also had never owned a dog before. Well. I adore this boy, he’s part of our family now and wouldn’t change him for anything. You know the but is coming… It was so so very hard at the start. I understood why rescue centres don’t match where kids are under 5. My 3yr old was just all over him and not yet old enough to read his body language. She’s better now at 7 but still developing these skills.

The first few months were the worst, he peed and pooed everywhere, cried and barked at night, barked lots of the time. I really had the puppy blues and felt we’d made a terrible mistake. We did classes and worked on training and it gradually got better. But training was so much harder with young kids to care for. Walks could be very testing when kids there too, completely oblivious to whatever I was trying to focus on with him. We made lots of mistakes and wish I’d worked more on some parts of training now that I didn’t understand we needed to at the time.

And one of the biggest things with hindsight is, he is too big for my older child (now nearly 10) to walk, and she’d love to, it’s such a shame. He’s just too strong. A smaller dog would’ve meant we could share things a bit more. Another issue I didn’t anticipate is how many kids are scared of big dogs. Multiple friends of our kids will no longer come to our house, which is sad, and others are wary so he needs a lot of management when those kids are around.

So I think that’s all the bad news. He is such a gorgeous boy, so loving and my kids adore him. He’s put up with so much shit! They have put socks on him and tinsel round his neck and he just keeps loving them. We are so much more active and all enjoy long walks with him. He’s just so important to us, so I’m not trying to put you off exactly, but if I did it again, I think I’d choose a smaller breed, and wait until my kids were in school. Sorry.

i'd start by looking at pure bred breeds, to learn some of the ingrained natural instincts, coat and care requirements.
then i'd look at the medium sized breeds and consider both bitches and males to get your ideal size.
some traits are more pronounced depending on the home life.
as a first time owner i would stick to a purebred as knowing some of the inherited traits makes teaching and planning easier.
over my years, my dogs: scottish terrier (he could be aggressive nice size), old english bulldog (classic placid only 2 out of 6 or so were great walkers few lived past 7), tibetian spaniel (placid loved by small children very easy going and great walker but not into tricks and shedding is tiresome) airedale (lovely medium sized, good energy for walking and lovely personality with other dogs but at 18 months is still very much a toddler doesn't always listen. recall still unpredictable at this point, pulls while walking, most food driven of any other dogs i have owned).
It's worth going to a few dog shows to meet breeders and their dogs all puppies are cute, training takes years and some undesirable habits are ingrained (tibetan spaniels are prone to eating poop).

Have a tbink about going to Crufts next year. There are stands with lots of different DDogs. You can meet them and talk to their owners. I became totally smitten with the Lancashire Heelers.

Agree too on the age of your DC. I was a little surprised too that local rescues wouldn’t rehome wirh small DC in the house. We did wait and I’m glad we did, I think it would have been too much for me and DDog if we’d had them earlier.

Do you go out to work, if so how long would the dog be left alone? What will you do with it for holidays?
Personally we waited until our youngest was at school before we got our dog. Puppies are hard work, and I was glad of some 1:1 time with it.

You need to think about cost. Decent insurance for a retriever is going to set you back £60 from the off. My youngest Goldie isn’t yet six months and costs me about £250 a month. My eldest is 13.5 and costs closer to £600.

If I am honest though, I don’t think any reasonable rescue would give any dog to a family with children that young - 7 is usually the youngest and that’s pushing it. My local Goldie one certainly wouldn’t! And most good breeders probably wouldn’t sell to you either. Probably not want you want to hear, but better to be honest as otherwise you’re likely going to end up buying from someone crap.

Make a list:
What can you offer a dog every day walks & company, how long will the dog be left? Now & in 3, 4 5 years time- circumstances do change!
every week training and longer walks.
How much money for monthly for food, vet plan and other care like training & grooming.

What are you looking for in a dog? Size, temperament, exercise needs, prey drive .... and yes looks!
Then do your research. The Kennel Club is a good start for fact sheets about different types of dogs and breeds.

Don't go for something because Joe Blocks has one or because you think it looks cute!
Once you have settled for a breed, use breed clubs to contact breeders and talk to them about their dogs!
Or if you have time, Discover Dogs at Crufts (in March!) Is a fantastic way to talk everything dog.

@Coldcoffeekindamorning this is totally meant in a light hearted way.
I adore my dog- she means the world to me but goodness gracious me they are tying. I knew that she couldn’t be left for long periods and all the normal gumpf but I feel guilt when I am away for longer than an hour or so. She is a bit of a Velcro dog so trots around and is under my feet whatever I am doing. She is a ‘sit next to you while on the loo’ type of dog :)
Holidays are a pain as she can’t go in a kennels. Someone stays at my house (her walker), the walker on a normal week Costs me a days wages, she has vet care at the house, expensive medication as she has ‘allergies’ and has a grooming schedule better than mine (she went for a mud bath yesterday)

Saying all that I adore her. My children are older (I do agree to maybe wait until they are at school) and I would have another five more if I could. She has just changed my life in more ways than I could ever list!

Do you know anyone who has a dog irl? If so talk to them about the pleasures and pitfalls of having a dog in the family, ask if your children can meet the dog, go for a walk with dog and owner, maybe visit their home. See how your children respond to the dog and the owner's instructions about the way to approach the dog. Then decide whether you still think getting a dog is a good idea.

If you do, of course you can take a pup from its mother, by 8 weeks most dams are happy to see the pups leave. They have stopped feeding them weeks ago. You might be able to find a slightly older pup who is available for various reasons.

I doubt very much that you will find a better breed of family dog than a Labrador, they generally have the perfect temperament for living with children but do make sure that they are fully health-checked.

Don't consider taking on a rescue, if you are not an experienced dog owner, you don't have the wherewithal to correct someone else's mistakes.

Just a few things to consider re Labrador they are scavengers extraordinaire! Many will find the most vile things when out and about... and then eat it!
Same for any hounds... they will chaise small furry things and some have the capacity to catch & kill.
Working Cooker Spaniel need an insane amount of mental & physical stimulation!

Obviously, exceptions make the rule, but something to keep in mind. 😉

And some DDogs are scavengers and have an extraordinary prey drive. Looking at you DDog.

I recently got my first dog - an older rescue whose owner had gone into a care home. I thought that the hardest bits would be walking them every single day and early morning toilet king (I love my lie-ins). Neither of these have been an issue. But the amount of time needed for training has almost broken me. She understand all the basic commands but trying to manage her terrier traits has been a much bigger job than I expected. I love her, she’s the best thing I’ve ever done and I wouldn’t change her for the world but she’s costing me far more in behaviorist fees and mental energy than I expected. Do it with your eyes open and it will be brilliant.

Total totally agree with the above that the physical and mental energy that I put in to raising my dog and now maintaining him in adulthood is far beyond anything i imagined when I got him. That said I wouldn't change him for the world and he is my entire personality now but I don't have kids. It sounds like you need to figure out an easy breed to fit into your lives because labs and retrievers aren't it.

One thing to be aware of is the difference very between show/pet and working lines. Obviously traits appear in a bell curve, so some working bred dogs will be chill and some show ones drivey and active, but in general dogs bred to work need an outlet or they go a bit nuts.

For example, my older dog becomes snappish and unpleasant to other dogs if I don't do anything with her for a month or so. If I give her what she needs, she's an absolutely lovely dog, social, nicely mannered, happy, chills well at home.

There are quite regularly posts on this board from OPs who got working spaniels who have become neurotic, started resource guarding, etc. So be aware of the work/show split in cockers and springers in particular, but also many other breeds.

There are quite regularly posts on this board from OPs who got working spaniels who have become neurotic, started resource guarding, etc. So be aware of the work/show split in cockers and springers in particular, but also many other breeds.

Totally understand this. Someone I know had a Working Cocker. Gives it one 10 walk a day if it’s lucky and leaves it at home alone for hours on end and complains constantly about the DDog. It’s not difficult to work our why her DDog is anxious and causing upset at home.

Weird comment that you do not want to take a puppy from their Mothers. Trust me the bitches are giving the puppies away if they had their way!

Do get more experience with dogs and around dogs before you make your decision.

If you are not used to dogs I woud wait unti your DC are older.

Think of what you can offer your dog. You walk them for a coupe of hours a day what are you going to give them for the remaining 22 hours of the day?

Are you prepared to change your lifestyle and things that you do in a big way? If no dont get a dog yet.

(dont get a working spanel you will regret it and so will the spaniel!)

OP we got our first dog in April. My son was 5 and a half at the time. You have had some excellent advice already here, but based on my experience:

1. I should have waited until my son was 7. There is reason rescue centres have this rule. It is incredibly difficult to manage small children and puppies/dogs together. I underestimated this.
2. He has cost us a fortune. Not just in insurance, food and other essentials like bed, toys etc but also in both regular and unexpected vet bills. I underestimated the pressure he would put ion our finances.
3. I work from home, and so can facilitate the walks he needs everyday. I wrongly assumed this would be enough. I didn’t fully consider the mental stimulation DDog would need throughout the day. I underestimated the work that would involve.
4. Go for a pure breed. DON’T go for a doodle like we did and be hoodwinked by a very well disguised puppy farm. They are brilliant at covering up what they are if you are a first time owner.

I Wouldn't change DDog for the world, he is everything to us as a family. But it has been an incredibly steep learning curve for us.

Hope this helps.

I am filled with admiration for your honesty here @GoodBones85

I agree with @Ylvamoon that researching your breed before you start, is the most important factor.

Agree with Landsharks that you need to be realistic and avoid being conned.

As to the taking a puppy from its mother: if you want a strong bond with your dog then it's good to get them young. Puppies don't need to stay with the mother beyond weaning. We got one of ours at 7 weeks and she was absolutely fine.

We got our wonderful golden retriever from Guide Dogs. He’s a fabulous dog, he just was too easily distracted by the world to be a Guide Dog or assistance dog but he’s a fabulous pet. I adore him.

I really wouldn’t endorse guide dogs as reputable in any way. They have bitches who produce litters for them who have up four litters AND they have bitches producing litters as young as 18 months. These are things they admit to - and all things that even the kennel club (notoriously shit when it comes to animal welfare) frown on as it’s so dangerous to the bitch.

Half their dogs aren’t from properly health tested parents either - which is why so many dogs are retired so young. Lots have serious issues like dysplasia.

Guide Dogs is fundamentally aimed at serving humans. Animal welfare comes last.

Do you have a good source to evidence what you say about guide dogs not being careful about only breeding from health tested parents? This seems strange to me as I know how much it costs the organisation even to get the dogs to the stage of being able to begin working as guide dogs seeing as they pay all their vet bills and food bills and training bills growing up & when they are old enough to start full time training.

I also know the norm is they allow breeding females to have 3 litters although they do occasionally have 4. I have my own concerns about the organisation and whether it is fair to the dogs which I feel conflicted about. But having raised a guide dog puppy I have never seen them be anything but committed to the health of the dog. They are way more obsessed by the dogs health than I was when I owned my own dog so I would honestly be very surprised if they are breeding from dogs with known health issues that are going to cause big vets bills throughout the life of the dog. And mean they are unable to qualify as Guide dogs.

My friend who raised a guide dog did get one that unfortunately developed health issues but his parents did not have the same condition nor any of the other puppies in the litter so that’s just bad luck I think. The dog is off the programme as a result but the guide dog organisation will pay for his vet insurance for life in regard to this expensive health condition.

I don’t want to derail the thread but disagree wholeheartedly. I found Guide Dogs’ primary focus to be on the dogs’ welfare, as it should be. I fully support them and the work they do and was nothing but amazed at their commitment to the dogs’ health and quality of life.

@Twiglets1 My work colleague has had three guide dogs in twelve years - she's just had to retire her most recent as it's elbow dysplasia is so bad it can barely walk. It's four. If she's getting through that many, I hate to think how many others are churned through.

Honestly, if they weren't a charity people would read statements like the below (taken from their website) and think 'scumbag puppy farmers';

• Not mate any bitches once they have reached six years and nine months of age, such that no bitch shall whelp a litter after her seventh birthday. After the age of five years nine months, veterinary opinion of the bitch’s health and physical condition will be sought and consent required before deciding whether to proceed with mating. No bitch will be mated before she is 18 months old, unless there are exceptional circumstances and then only if she is considered mature enough to raise a litter of puppies.

Given they're breeding retrievers, primarily, and it's widely agreed that physically retrievers are not mature until well after 24 months (their joints just aren't strong enough and their muscles aren't fully developed)...they absolutely should not be breeding them before 18 months - but they don't seem to care about that.

• A consecutive season mating may be considered in the middle of a bitch’s breeding career, to ensure that litters are delivered at the peak of a bitch’s reproductive fitness.

They are happy to have a bitch essentially churn out two litters in a row, if it suits them. That is never in the dogs best interest, no matter how much they try and claim otherwise and no good vet, breeder or owner would put their dog through that.

• Ensure that all bitches that have required two caesareans shall be retired.

After one cesarean, almost every breeder - including most non-reputable ones I can think of - would retire their dog. The sheer strain it would put on the dog is just unacceptable.

You'd be surprised by actually how little the costs are for Guide Dogs. They take in millions of donations every year...and it's those donations that allow them to continue churning up puppies and butchering the mothers. They might seem committed to the health of the puppies - but that's surface level, because the puppies are valuable.

The mothers are not and that's why they abuse them (in my eyes).

@TheFatCatSatOnTheMat tell me how they care about dogs when they have dogs pregnant in consecutive seasons, overbreed them, breed them before they're fully mature and breed them long after they should be retired.

They 'care' about the puppies welfare as the puppy is their goldmine. Just like a puppy farmer. They don't care about the mothers. What they do is animal abuse.

If I was breeding my girls 4 times, and before they were fully mature, people would call me every name under the sun - and rightly so. But when GuideDogs do it...it's okay, apparently.

You haven’t provided what I asked for which was a good source to evidence what you said about guide dogs not being careful about only breeding from health tested parents.

3 dogs in 12 years does sound very high if they were all retired in health grounds which not all guide dogs are, sometimes they get retired for reasons to do with their behaviour. But even if it’s true that 3 were retired purely on health grounds that’s still anecdotal evidence based on a sample of 3 dogs.

You obviously have a bias against dog breeders generally and guide dogs in particular, this is clear in the emotive language you are using such as “butchering”.

So again I am asking do you have any objective evidence for your claim that they breed from non health tested dogs? Or is it just your opinion based on things like a conversation with your work colleague who was unlucky to have 3 dogs that needed to be retired early?

It is enormously expensive to get a guide dog to the standard required to be working. Yes of course they get millions in donations, they are a charity not a private business. But they are very cost conscious & don’t waste money on anything non essential. So it would seem crazy for them to be as cost conscious as they are and also throw money away on breeding puppies that will only be able to work for a small number of years. Any health conditions the dogs develop before retirement the organisation will cover the vet insurance for the rest of their lives, maybe you didn’t know that. Normal breeders would not do this.

@Twiglets1 I am a breeder, who has been approached by Guide Dogs asking to use my dog as a stud. The way they approached me was, quite frankly, as abhorrent as their breeding practices.

But taking puppies at six weeks, forcing bitches to have litters in consecutive seasons, breeding them before they are fully mature, over-breeding them and then discarding them once they are done is disgraceful.

I don't need to share evidence with you. A quick google would show you everything I have said is true.

I have nothing against breeding when done well. But, quite frankly, even IF their dogs were healthy and fully health tested, the abuse that the bitches face is reason enough that the organisation should be banned. How anyone can focus on health issues, and not on the abuse the animals suffer at the hand of Guide Dogs, is beyond me tbh.