Crate training 9 wk old puppy

[Suuudohnym]

We've been taking it in turns to sleep downstairs with her (us on sofa, her in bed on floor). Rouses 2/3 times a night to check we're there - quick stroke and back to sleep. Sometime in the night she quietly gets up to wee and poo on the floor - she doesn't let us know she needs to go in the night. During the day, toileting is pretty good - we take her out after waking/playing/eating or she fusses when she needs to go - we usually get a result in the garden. She gets a treat & praise.

I'm just wondering how we start moving to being able to let her sleep independently. I'd prefer her to sleep downstairs but understand this needs to be a gradual process and am wondering if we need to start moving to a crate? If so:

1. Do you just start putting her in the crate at night (obvs get her used to it first with treats/toys/making it nice for her etc), sleeping next to her but gradually moving your 'bed' further away (I'm not sure what I'd sleep on as I can't move the sofa!)

2. Do you put a puppy pad in there in case of accidents? If she wees in the house, she tends to go on a pad but poos on the floor (we totally ignore toileting in the house, but praise it in the garden). She's so small, I don't know how she'd hold it in all night?

3. Or would you get up in the night and take her in the garden?

For the first week we had our puppy he slept in the bed with us, then we put him in his crate in the bedroom for another week and then downstairs after that, we cover the crate with a blanket at bed time, thankfully he didn't cry or bark too much, maybe for 10 minutes the first night but after that he settled fine. At the start we put a puppy pad in the crate with him but he never went to the toilet in there, puppies seem to know not to go near where they sleep. He would sleep for 6ish hours before he'd make some noises and we would take him outside to go to the toilet, he's 16 weeks now and he will sleep 8 hours in the crate at night before needing to get out to the toilet.

During the day I feed him in his crate, when he see's me with his food he will run in there waiting for it, I also keep all his toys in there so he's constantly hopping in and out of the crate during the day but I don't really lock him in there very much during the day, he's fine sleeping there at night when everyone is gone to bed but he would whine and complain if it was day time and he could see and hear us all outside

Some puppies sleep right through from the off, but mine didn't. He slept by my bed for two or three nights, then made such a fuss that I took him down and put him in his crate next to our other dog in his basket. I got up and took him out, on his lead, after about three hours then another three hours then getting up time. Every three nights I expanded the time interval by fifteen minutes. Wrote it all down to keep track. We had no overnight accidents at all and very few in the daytime.

Thank you both.

She went in the crate for bed last night with no fuss (door open). I slept in the room. She roused a few times and got out to come and check I was there then took herself back to bed. Still did her secret wee and poo in the night 🙄

I feel like if I put her in there and left the room, she would definitely whine for me.

Should I just do regular checks on her?

And how do I progress to shutting the crate door - there is too much mischief for her to get into with the door open!!

She probably will cry for you but you will just have to let her cry for a bit .I don't mean hours but see if she stops after a little bit of time.

Thank you. If she cries for too long, should I go in and comfort her then leave again - and then just repeat if necessary?

Yeah but try to wait for a break in the crying before you open the crate so she doesn't think that crying gets her out!

We got quite a big crate with a partition. Early on we didn’t use the partition and there was a sleep space (initially cheap small mattress) and toilet space as they only have tiny bladders, then as he grew we put in the partition so there was not enough space to toilet, and once he broke that habit the partition came out and he was happy in the larger space for two years.

Only ever opened the door when he was sitting quietly.

Our puppy is currently 14 weeks old and came home at 9 weeks. Our approach from night 1 has been the same - we take her upstairs at our bedtime which is 11 pm and put her in her crate next to our bed nested between my side of the bed and the wall, crate covers down and lock the gate. First few nights I stuck my fingers in when she whimpered but that was first few nights. Next few weeks she whimpered at 4 am to be taken to garden for wee and poo but now just sleeps like a log in crate between 11-7 which is perfect.

Also to add all her naps (she has three solid chunky naps during the day) are all in that same set up in her crate upstairs. We take her up, put her in, lock crate door, crate cover down, some white noise like I sue for my insomnia and she sleeps (snores loudly as is a ShihTzu).

downstairs there’s no crate - lots of bed and our senior Shih Tzu she can play fight with

Back again! 11wks old now.

So, we started putting her in crate and shutting the door but sleeping in same room as her for a few days. Routine seems to be:

Bed 9.30ish
Wake for toilet 3/4am
Sometimes toilet again 5/6am
Up for day 7/7.30 ish

First time last night we put her in a different room to us. We’d been practising during a few daytimes with clicker training - leaving the room, closing the door, clicking when she’s quiet and going in to reward her.

Last night at the 4am wake, she would not settle for 1.5hrs - howling/crying/barking. Persisted with the clicking but I’m not sure she gets it. She was so overtired she was frantic and bitey. Eventually settled after a few attempts at opening the crate door and stroking to calm her.

I’m really dreading tonight. Have we done it wrong? I hate the feeling of wanting to be consistent but worrying we’re doing the wrong thing and instilling bad habits or upsetting her.

i Would very strongly recommend you read the guides on the Dog Training Advice and Support Group on Facebook (not the fake one but the one with the professionals running it and with the Guides). Please read Guides 1, 2 and 12, in addition to some of the others.

here is the group https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1Bmt8iRvq4/?mibextid=wwXIfr

You’re expecting a lot for an 11 week old puppy.

Put her crate in your room for now.

Hi @Ecrire sorry, I can’t get the link to work - does it look like this?

@vanillalattes Please believe I am not trying to force anything with her. We’ve not been leaving her to cry. Everything we’ve done since we’ve got her home has been about trying to raise a secure and happy dog.

I was fully expecting to sleep in the same room as her for weeks but there is so much conflicting information about this. And after talking to a friend who slept with her pup for the first 6 weeks and now has a 5 year old dog with terrible anxiety and SA, I’m worried about creating the same problem and just trying to navigate my way through all this. I’m overwhelmed with information and advice.

I was coming along to advise that Facebook group too. It is excellent. That is the correct one you have added a screenshot of.

There’s no real right answer I don’t think.

We never had our pup in our room. We crate trained her with the door closed from day one, but if she cried in the night we would go and sit with her / sleep on a mattress in the kitchen until she fell back asleep. She finally cracked sleeping
through / only waking for the toilet when we fully covered her crate with a blanket.

We literally spent every waking moment with her until she was 4 months old, then slowly built up to leaving her - at first we locked her in the crate for up to 5 mins in the day and built up from there.

She’s now brilliant with being left alone in a breed that’s known for SA, but it was a hard slog for weeks of always being there when she cried, but not relenting and having her in our room.

Thanks @FerrisWheelsandLilacs It’s so hard, isn’t it? Especially when you have different people’s opinions making you feel like you’re being too soft, too hard or are just plain wrong!

I’m wondering if at the 3/4am waking, I should just try cuddling her next to/in her crate till she settles right down end nods off and then close the crate and leave, rather than clicking when there’s a break in the howling and going in and out the room to settle her?

When you started leaving her for 5 mins at a time, how did she react and how did you manage it? (Not planning on doing this yet but good to be prepared!).

@Suuudohnym I feel your pain about all the conflicting advice, I felt the same way at that stage with my Lab. My head was spinning not knowing what I should be doing.

I slept in the living room with him for 7 weeks (I got him at 8 weeks old) and he hasn’t got separation anxiety. I did have him come and sleep with me when he got to 5 months old, but only because he would sleep in for longer and I like my sleep! We did get to a point where he was ok sleeping in the crate downstairs while I went to bed though before that happened. All dogs are different but mine suddenly got more confident around the 4 month old mark.

Personally in your situation, I would stop googling, stop looking for advice and follow your instincts. Take it really slowly, slower than you are. You won’t give your pup S.A. by going at her pace. Things got so much easier for me when I just focused on me and my dog and shut out all the noise. It does get easier!

Sorry but you shouldn't be letting an 11 week old puppy cry from an hour and a half.
I can't comment on your friend's situation as I don't know what else she did with her dog.
IMO the first weeks are about establishing a bond with your dog, so they feel secure and become happy, confident pups.
My last two puppies have slept in crates next to my bed for the first few months. If they cried or whined, I could talk to them and stroke them through the bars. And when they woke in the night, I could hear them and take them outside for wees.
During the daytime, they were both with me all the time. That is to say, they had free roam of the downstairs and would happily trot off to other rooms, but they were never shut away from me. And often day time naps were spent on my lap.
Neither of them have SA and are able to be left home alone for a few hours at a time.

if your puppy is howling you’re doing this wrong. Don’t leave any puppy that isn’t happy being left. That group is amazing. Please have a look at it.

Sorry forgot to add, come and join the puppy thread. Non judgemental support and advice! They got me through some tough times!

Also like @SpanielsGalore, mine had all his naps on me or next to me (and still does at 8 months old)
I remember when I couldn’t even go out of his sight without him crying - I built that up extremely slowly over a period of time and he is fine to be left home alone for a couple of hours (in the puppy proofed kitchen)

I wasn't meaning to imply you were, but if your puppy is so frantic that it takes 90 minutes to calm them and stop them screaming, then something has gone wrong somewhere.

We put our puppy in our room (in our bed, though I appreciate that's not for everyone) and we never had any issues at night. At 11 weeks old many breeds are still with mum and siblings - expecting them to settle in a crate alone is unrealistic, though I know many manage it.

Sorry, I should clarify she wasn’t crying alone for 1.5 hrs - we were in and out the room with her every few seconds trying to calm her down.

I think the PP who said I should stop googling might be right - my head is spinning.

Yes! That is indeed the one. You will need some time to go through the relevant guides which are full of loads of posts and advice. Do not forced asking for advice until you have read the relevant guides. I think for you the most useful will be the ones in guide to on puppies including puppies and how they form attachments and crate training.

If I had to summarise the relevant advice from that group, it would absolutely an overwhelmingly be to prevent and avoid any situation in these precious early weeks when her brain is developing for the puppy to be crying and howling or screaming for you. Yes, this is a profound disruption and yes this means that everything you do in your lives will be different and changed for a good many months.