Puppy confinement during the day

[Youarethecrown]

Hello all

DPuppy is now 16 weeks old, he’s so gorgeous and lovely and, so far so good, it’s been a relatively smooth addition to our family.

He is crate trained and sleeps all night without a peep in his crate. DP and I take it in turns to work from home so he isn’t left for long periods, and we time leaving him in the crate for 2-3 hours maximum (it’s only been 3 if we have to go out) with having just had a walk and toilet so he’s tired.

He is quite clingy and has separation anxiety in the day time, though. I’m wondering if we should get a play pen for him to use if we need to leave him for a short period, sometimes as simple as needing to put the DC to bed and so being upstairs away from him for half an hour or so. We have been putting him in the crate for these periods but it feels a bit mean to me. DH disagrees as he raves that crates are the best, and I understand the purpose of it as a cosy den for pup, but I would like to be able to leave him to play alone with more space for shorter periods of time. He has his set up in our kitchen/living which he can’t have free rein of yet as he would chew the sofa legs, mat etc if left and bored.

I would just leave him in his crate. At 16 weeks, expecting him to play alone without being destructive or hurting himself is a huge ask.

I bought a long baby dan gate and sectioned of half the kitchen including the back door which I left open
Pup had free run in this area ,untill she grew bigger ,as she was the size of a guinea pig when we got her ,and we didn't want her getting squashed under foot .
Never needed a cage ...

We've never used a cage but we also use a playpen as a room divider. All our pups have been free range. Our current girl has slept in the kitchen/dining area with a dog gate on the door from 8 weeks. Not sure what you mean by hurting himself... I know of injuries occurring from dogs being crated though. We've never had chewed table legs or chairs.

I thought Crates aren’t supposed to be used to confine dog - the door should be open - I would set up one with crate inside with covers over and a nest bed inside

Unless he is used to a pen and comfortable alone, he will likely try climbing out of the pen and willl potentially hurt himself - my pup could easily climb out at 10 weeks (little sod) but would happily stay in it now shes more settled. I wouldn’t leave her in it any longer than for a speedy wee though, just in case

By injuries, I mean puppies eating things they shouldn't, or jumping up onto things and damaging their joints or muscles. I know of puppies who have torn round living rooms and broken their legs jumping, for example.

There’s risk with everything

your giving an extreme view

No, I'm just going by my own experience.

Our beagle would have easily jumped out of a playpen at 16 weeks old, likely causing himself more injury as there would have been a risk of his legs getting caught or stuck. He could jump onto our dining table from standing at that age, lol.

We puppy-proofed a room to leave him in but that's not always possible if you have a chewer or an escape artist, in which case the crate would be a good, safe option, especially as OP's puppy is already used to it.

I see what you mean. We make sure ours don't have access to sofas or stairs. The kitchen & dining room is pretty easy to puppy proof.

Yeah, ours are too but OP says hers can't be trusted at the moment, lol.

A lot of people are just too scared to try free range though. They think pup will wreck the house.

I think that’s understandable though, they can do a lot of damage in a surprisingly short amount of time and if they swallow something it can be fatal (or at the very least, expensive!).

Hmm I can see the crates are controversial! I don’t like using it for the purpose of confining him, to be honest. But sometimes our pup won’t sleep in the day when he’s manically overtired and stimulated until we put him in the crate, then he conks out! So it is his cosy bed and I see it for that purpose.

But my BIL’s dog tried to climb out of the playpen as a pup and they found him stuck with one leg in on the top of it (I wouldn’t leave pup in the playpen when we go out, it’s more if he needs to be left alone for short periods while we’re at home). Another relative’s dog hurt its back severely from jumping from their sofa. We have a sofa in our kitchen/living room and pup can jump on to it, it’s amazing how high they can jump. He does get destructive when left alone which I think is part anxiety part protest - he managed to get a book of my DC’s from the sofa not long ago and tore it to shreds, I was only upstairs about 10 minutes!

Our plan is to start training him with the playpen, while we’re at home, to get him used to it and happy.

The problem is that if you start thinking like that they can end up being in a cage for 18 hours a day. It causes muscle atrophy as well as being psychologically damaging. By 16 weeks old a puppy should have been taught to settle quietly outside a cage. Even if it's being crated at night, it should still be settling when you are in the house. Crating is a fairly recent thing here in the UK, so how do you think puppies ever survived to adulthood before?

His crate has a cover over and bedding inside.

In the evenings he settles very easily outside of it - he has a bed in the living room which he sleeps in from about 8pm onwards, and then he goes in the crate around 10pm, sleeps until 6:30am when I let him out.

We gave up on the crate pretty quickly And puppy proofed the spare room and used baby gates

Why would that mean they’re crated for 18 hours a day? If that’s happening, that means the puppy is being left unattended for far too long anyway, and the family shouldn’t have one in the first place.

I agree with @CoubousAndTourmaIet

Crating for extensive periods of time, particularly in dog predisposed to joint issues (which includes many popular large and little breeds), is a terrible idea.

OP - if you’re crating your dog for the times you suggested + up to three hours a day, that’s cruel. That’s nearly 12 hours. Half a day. I know you say it’s not every day, but that’s still pretty bad as not only is it just cruel, it will be damaging joint growth.

I’ve known puppies dislocate their jaws on their crate before and break their legs escaping play pens. You say your dog is already showing signs of SA and honestly, from what you’ve described, I’m not surprised.

I think you need to find a better solution long term or this little issue will become huge and impossible. SA when badly managed ruins dogs and human lives.

I guess PP means including overnight? I would say he’s crated for an absolute maximum of 12 hours a day, but that’s if we were to go out and leave him for up to 3, which I think we have only done twice since having him. 9 of those hours is overnight, but he would be sleeping anyway in those hours.

I think people are either in favour or against crating and that’s fine, but there is plenty of evidence to support it as the dog’s cost den/chill out spot. Sometimes that does need to be enforced rest for ours as if the DC are here, he won’t settle unless in the crate as he’s too distracted and he gets manic, almost like he’s drunk!

Having seen your update, I think you’re really naive. He’s a puppy. He needs training - not shoving in a crate because he’s manic! You’re going to struggle when he’s 8/9/10 months and manic if you don’t train him now. Crating him is not a solution.

I’m pro crate in the right circumstances. These are not them. And it doesn’t matter if it’s it’s not every day. 12 hours is unacceptable.

My pup is 18 weeks and sleeps in the crate with door closed overnight (we didn’t get him until 14 weeks so he was already doing this). If we need to go out to work I leave him in a pen which is big enough to house his crate with the door open so he can go in there or has space to roam. The height of the puppy playpen is over 1m so he can’t jump over as it is too high, nor has he tried. In the long run he’ll have the run of the kitchen/ diner but I’m increasing his space gradually and he seems happy with this set up at the moment. I’m also open to ditching the crate overnight when the time is right as I think he’d quite like to sleep on the sofa/ Poang Chair (his fave!) and we are happy for him to do that eventually.

I will try to find the link to the pen we bought, it secures to the crate or to itself so is handy for all sorts of configurations.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks what part of this implies he’s not trained/we are not training him? His manic behaviour is when he is massively over tired, over stimulated, so he goes in his crate then for a sleep, the same way a baby would when overtired.

@YvieYfronts yes that’s exactly the goal, once he’s old enough he can have the run of the kitchen/living room which is big. we have started today with the pen and made it fun for him by creating a little kibble treasure hunt in there to start, and he’s now snoozing on his big cushion in the pen which also has his crate with door open in there and some toys. We’re going to build up to leaving him in there for short periods when we have to nip upstairs.

12 hours a day makes it sound like it’s during the day time. 9+ of those are when he is asleep overnight!!! He wants to go into his crate to sleep at night, he trots in there himself (having already been conked out for 3ish hours on a cushion in the living room!).