Puppy Survival Thread Autumn 2025 - all welcome!

[VanGoSunflowers]

Hello everyone! Won’t tag you all as you know everyone is welcome 😊

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks I had a bit of experience with this at my vet who was pushing to get Pablo booked in to be neutered before he is even one. I’m still not certain I will do it at all, I think it’s a ‘watch and wait’ for me to see how he develops and settles in to maturity. He is also such a submissive dog, would neutering him make that worse in terms of testosterone levels do you think?

The advice you get from vets does change over time.

When I was discussing optimum age for castration with my vet she mentioned in passing that when she first qualified they used to advise neutering even earlier than 6 months but now they say not before 12 months.

This wasn't addressed to me but I've had 2 male Labs castrated at 1 year old and they both tended towards being submissive. It didn't affect them at all in this way. They were a bit submissive but also friendly before castration and the same afterwards.

It did seem to make other male dogs less likely to be aggressive towards them.

I intend to get the new puppy castrated shortly after his first birthday. This may not affect some people but for us, we will be using dog boarders when we go on holiday, and it's hard to find people who will board your dog in their own home once they pass the 1 year mark if they are uncastrated because of their habit of marking territory.

@Twiglets1 My vets have just employed a newly qualified vet. I shall ask her what she was taught next time I see her.

Good idea.

@VanGoSunflowers it's hard to know. But for bigger dogs, prone to joint issues, I absolutely wouldn't castrate before their bones and joints are fully developed.

The thing is, vets used to say six months - and then they realised how much damage they were doing to dog health, so pushed it back by six months...but in larger breeds the situation in terms of their health and development doesn't change between 6 months and a year. A labrador (as most retrievers) is not physically or mentally mature until 24 months. You shouldn't really breed a dog before then - as they're not physically or mentally ready - so why would you (being frank) cut off the ability to produce hormones that bring them to that maturity?

I'd be interest to know what @SpanielsGalore vet says about it. As I said, my vets have posters on the walls saying they categorically will not neuter dogs when they're young and some pretty shocking numbers about the risks.

There was a study recently that found that 17% of Golden Retrievers developed joint issues and/or cancer when neutered before 18 months. It found that if female Goldens were neutered, their chances of suffering joints issues or developing cancer increased a ridiculous amount. They actually advised, as a result of the study, that female Golden Retrievers were never spayed and that males were castrated after 24 months - but ideally not at all. Obviously, that's Golden Retrievers, but I'd be interested to know if a similar study with a wide number of dogs was done for other breeds...

Is it this study @TheHungryHungryLandsharks ?

Some interesting guidelines for different breeds. Surprising that the results for Labs for example so different to Golden Retrievers.

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/news/study-updates-spay-neuter-guidelines/

That's interesting. It recommends after 2 years old for female cocker spaniels. I aim for three months after second season, so I'll have to see how old that makes K at the time.

@Twiglets1 it wasn't that one - although I have read it before. I do think the table is interesting as they draw similar conclusions to the study I read for female Golden Retrievers, although very different for males.

I'm slightly sceptical about that one though, as several others have come out with very different conclusions (particularly around early neutering and spaying of larger breeds) and it also appears they looked at a variety of issues, including skin issues which is possible why their sample size was so small? 700 isn't a huge amount given there are about 40K Golden Retrievers in the US. My maths is pretty rubbish but that's less than 2% I think?

Although, the study I read was based off the study in 2013 as that one was - which is interesting, as it definitely indicates an issue with female Golden Retrievers and cancer/joint issues as both studies had similar results. The one I referenced used a far larger number of Golden Retrievers, I think it was something like 5,000 over a period of 8+ years and they exclusively focussed on cancer and joint issues, nothing else. I'll see if I can dig it out when I'm back on my laptop.

Sad though that whatever way you look at it, Golden Retrievers being spayed is not good.

Ah ok - yes it definitely looks that way for Golden Retrievers.

Golden retrievers (and flat coats) are known to be slower to mature than labradors. I read it's one of the reasons labs became much more popular as working dogs, as getting them out and working sooner was valuable.

Their general cancer risks and some of their problem behaviours differ quite a bit too. They're not just labs in a fluffy coat.

Interesting ... I had a Lab from show lines previously and he was pretty slow to mature himself, I'm talking years. Lovely boy though.

Current pup is half show line, half working dog so I've high hopes of him maturing a bit sooner. Time will tell.

We are currently pondering when will be the right time to castrate W. His dad was a miniature poodle so he’s pretty small - 8.5kg at last weigh in.

He turns one in Saturday which I can’t quite believe but I am wondering if we try and hold out till 18months. He only humps his jumping cushion but boy has that thing seen a lot of action lately 😂

Obviously I meant humping cushion…..

My female spayed 4 year old lab still humps the cushions almost nightly so don't let the humping influence your neutering thoughts 🤣

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️😂😂

Thankyou for the reality check - I’m a complete novice here…..

Okay, I had a good look for the article but I cannot find it. So I will keep digging until I find it. I refuse to be beaten by my shitty macbook that keeps dying on me every time I open any document more than two words long.

@GoodBones85 At least the cushion is the only one suffering, so that's a plus 😀

@tizwozliz 100% agree, very different dogs. Golden Retrievers have typically got behavioural issues that are a hell of a lot more challenging than labs - which tbh is why I think labs are a brilliant dog for families with younger children where Golden Retrievers often aren't. It's a shame, as they used to be a much more robust dog.

But at least Golden Retrievers are still more intelligent than Flat Coats, so they do have something going for them...

Yes, all the flat coats I've met have been delightfully dim

It's so interesting reading all this about spaying/ neutering. When we got our previous dog (border collie), we were advised in no uncertain terms to have her spayed at 6 months, before her first season. She died last year at 14 years old, so quite a while ago. I knew no better and took their advice, but I feel
so sad about it now, because she was plagued with join issues and developed arthritis in her later years. Towards the end one of her hock joints totally collapsed and they said there was a mass on the bone, maybe cancer. I am very glad that understanding is now more advanced, but I do feel sad that Pippins issues could possibly have been avoided. But you can only go with what the professionals advise.

@Struckbylightning But you did the best you could at the time with the advice and knowledge you had. Even in 2021, my vets were advising spaying at 6 months old.
Pippin may have had issues regardless. N isn't neutered and is riddled with arthritis and joint problems. P has joint issues and arthritis, which started before she was spayed. Sometimes it's just the luck of the drawer.

@SpanielsGalore thank you. I do need to think of it like that. She was a wonderful dog, had a great life and so much love. Regrets are pointless aren’t they.

Does anyone give any kind of supplements to ward off joint issues? I don’t know if Merry is too young to start giving anything? Green-lipped mussel or cod liver oil?

@Struckbylightning as Spaniels said, even a few years ago the advice was very different. And very often the advice isn't out there and easily accessible anyway and people trust what their vet tells them. I only know about that Golden Retriever research (which I still can't find @Twiglets1 but am still trying to find - and WILL find 😁) because I was actively looking for it because I knew a study had been done.

FWIW, I do think that even if a dog has terrible joint issues or arthritis their life isn't over. They can still live amazing lives, and one of the things dogs care most about is being loved - if they have that, they'll be happy with anything. It might not be the energetic life they deserve, but by and large they'll be happy.

In terms of supplements, you can't (in my personal view) do better than a good diet that caters to your dogs age - so high calorie with lots of protein and calcium for puppies. I've never given mine supplements, or anything like that, but I do keep them on puppy food until they're over 24 months (in Twatdog's case he was nearly 3 before I took him off puppy food). But that's a very specific choice I have made due to the joint issues Golden Retrievers can face. I know with other breeds (including Giants) the advice is to give them adult food sooner.

We used to get green lipped mussel supplements off the internet for our old Lab. They seemed to stop his arthritis getting any worse for a few years, though it’s hard to say for sure if it was them that helped. Still, we gave them out as treats & he loved them so not wasted either way 😂
I’ll see if I can post a link to the ones we used later, if they are still in business.

Don’t worry @TheHungryHungryLandsharks - you will probably come across it by chance in a few weeks or months if you stop looking. That normally happens to me anyway.

@Twiglets1 yes I also used to give our old lady greenlipped mussels pills. She started on you move, but then I realised the mussels things had the same ingredients. I felt that they really helped her. At one stage she was so stiff in her hips. After taking them every day she really got a spring back in her step for a good few years. She also crunched them like sweeties 😂 Apparently they are also good for humans!