Doberman as a first dog.

[JamieCannister]

I've always been someone who is no fan of dogs (probably dating back to young childhood, being scared by dobermans at a distance (a few doors down had three of them, who looked very intimidating when standing off lead 30 yards away when you're 5 years old!), an old english sheepdog on his hind legs towering over my pram, and a little yapper next door that would bark aggressively at me from two foot away behing a chain link fence multiple times a day for the best part of a decade!)

Saying that I am reasonably comfortable with them, especially well trained larger dogs (I especially dislike small dogs). When I have a bit of confidence it's well trained I am happy enough petting a rottweiler I've just met.

Anyway, I have stumbled upon a couple of youtube channels and I am falling in love with Dobermans. Or at least I am falling in love with very well trained dobermans - I do not like out of control dogs at all!

Aside from the obvious (all dogs need to be very well trained, not least big ones that can cause real harm, it'll need plenty of exercise and attention) what advice would you give someone considering a doberman as a first dog?

Yes very sad, a young Doberman in my local park had a sudden cardiac arrest and died in the park. Very very sad for the young boy in the family who was walking him at the time.

The thing is that there is a HUGE expanse of time between the 'uncontrolled' and the 'extremely well trained'. You'd have to be able to cope with the 'partly trained' for an awful lot of that time and this is where the trouble comes. You can't take a dog to a dog trainer and come out a week later with a perfectly trained dog - you might have to wait YEARS to have a dog that's as well trained as some of the ones you've been seeing.

Any dog at the beginning of its training journey can be a liability. The bigger the dog the bigger the problems can be, simply because they find it easier to tow you about and can cause more damange. Small dogs are just as shitty obviously, but it's easier to haul back a Jack Russell that's trying to chase your neighbour's cat than it is a Rottie or other large breed dog.

There are plenty of other breeds. And, dare I say it, the good old mongrel (NOT one of these 'designer mongrels, a real, honest to goodness Heinz 57) might be a better fit for you.

Oh, and don't get a Patterdale. Don't say you weren't warned...

I’ve had more than 40 dogs and I absolutely would not do what you are planning. Dobes are hugely intelligent guardian breeds, as a novice, I would recommend you stay well away. Also agree re: size, the smaller they are, the easier they are to manage.

Oh my god.
As a dog trainer/behaviourist DO NOT do this. Thats a terrible idea for a novice handler

I've always been someone who is no fan of dogs

Saying that I am reasonably comfortable with them

I have stumbled upon a couple of youtube channels and I am falling in love with Dobermans. Or at least I am falling in love with very well trained dobermans

You’ve never liked or felt comfortable with dogs, but you’ve watched a couple of YouTube videos and think you’re ready for an exceptionally intelligent, socially aloof, highly alert, Velcro dog 😂 you know puppies don’t usually come ‘very well trained’, even Doberman puppies?

You’ll get one and it’ll piss in your house, chew your shoes and nip at your hands because it’s a puppy, and you’ll never get to the ‘well trained’ part because you don’t really like dogs enough to cope with the bit that comes before the ‘well trained’ dog, so you would have given up already.

Have someone's dog stay with you for a couple of weeks while they go on holiday OP before you consider doing anything. If it's a bitey puppy even better. Personally I'd never get a puppy - other people's have put me off. Destroyed furniture, shoes, weeing and pooing in the house and being bitten for months on end.

Having a dog is a huge commitment and you really have to consider them all the time. You can't just decide to go out for the day, you can't have a weekend away or go on holiday without having someone to look after them. And you might find people aren't that keen to look after something as big and aggressive looking as a doberman, I'm not a fan at all. Far too hyper alert for my liking.

If you really want a dog why not get an older rescue dog that is through the bitey stage and already house trained. I think though a dog probably isn't right for you, it sounds like you're not that keen really but like the idea of a Doberman version of Lassie. Unfortunately training a dog really isn't simple - mainly because they have minds of their own! It takes huge amounts of time effort and patience and you have to keep that up consistently in the long term. I don't think a doberman puppy would be a good first dog at all.

As someone who recently (April) got their first puppy - I will say that I MASSIVELY (and I cannot state that enough) underestimated how hard it would be and how much work it would take.

Please consider this in your decision making, along with the advice of some of the posters on this thread who are incredibly experienced.

OP, even the way you word the fact that you'd 'want an incredibly well-trained' Dobie seems to indicate that you can get one that comes ready trained - or hand over the dog for a while to someone else to do it for you.

That's not how it works...

No. Would not recommend for a first dog. Yes all dogs have different personalities but please bear in mind that all breeds have traits, and some of these traits can be particularly unforgiving if you are an unexperienced owner.

Please consider investing the time in building a relationship with a good rehoming centre. They can ask you lots about what you want in a dog and help you find something suitable for you. You would also be providing a good home to a dog that needs one.

As other people have said, please, no. They are not a dog for the first time owner, no matter how good your intentions and how well you wish to train the dog.

I have neighbours who got an Akita as a first time dog.....

One of my dogs is half doberman, and in the 12 years I've owned him I have learnt a lot about dobie behaviour.
I adore the very bones of him, but they are incredibly sensitive - we can't watch Mastermind as he hates the music. He hates anyone swearing, and will try and break up the cats fighting as he doesn't like it.
I am his person and he's very protective - but he decides what I need protecting from so I have to be aware of this all the time and cut it off if its not appropriate.
Aged 10 he decided that he was a sniffer dog and started body searching people when we were out and about. That was fun.
He is very stubborn and knows what he wants and will plant his feet to tell me he has needs (he never pulls on the lead, just stops) or does meaningful looks. I can't have any kind of routine as he would want to stick to it rigidly.
Training is a never ending thing, if I had a dobie puppy I would be training them from the first minute and thinking about every single thing I did/said/ let them do.
So no, I don't think one would be suitable for a first time owner. How about a rescue greyhound - they are adult so you know their personality, they are very chill in general, don't jump up etc

I also really like them, not enough to commit to owning one though.

im sure all the advice on here is correct but also pretty sure people get them as first time owners all the time and nothing disastrous happens.

its very rare that you read about dobermans involved in serious attacks too.

Dobermans are hard work in the early years (often until they are middle aged). I’ve owned 5 over the last 30 years - 3 males and 2 females. They have all been different. They are intelligent and highly trainable but wilful.

The current one hates walks, rain, wind etc refuses to play games of fetch. Sleeps all day and only wants cuddles on the sofa. Never barks when someone comes to the door but barks if he sees someone walk down the street.

Only consider if you can dedicate years to early training.

……and you are prepared to put up with live alongside the untrained version for the several years it will take to get to that point

Apart from anything else the risk of heart disease (DCM) in the breed should rule them out on health grounds. More than half develop heart disease and it's not uncommon for young dogs to simply drop down dead.

@Dunnocantthinkofone… and accept that the trained version will continue to be harder work than other breeds of dog your friends own due to selective deafness and intelligence/wilfulness.

Worth noting that as a dog owner you will be in contact with way more dogs than as a non dog owner. Your dog will attract other dogs and it’s the less well trained ones who will come bounding over to you.

No

I wouldn’t. My uncle had two, male rescues. The breed is very highly strung. They need a LOT of work. It doesn’t stop. They’re big dogs and will wreck your house if they get anxious or bored. OP you want a middle aged Labrador!

A retired greyhound might suit you better

They're hard work, too much energy.

Terribly bad idea. I’ve had dogs and grown up with dogs all my life, it’s a lot of dog for a first time owner. You’d have to be ‘on it’ at all times, it’s a lot of dog.

Local dog walker/trainer is on her second dobe and he’s a completely different kettle of fish, can’t go off lead, formidably strong, bloody massive and doesn’t like other dogs.

And she wants a breed that she was terrified of as a child for maybe some kind of exposure therapy.

This has disaster written all over it.

OP doesn't really like dogs. Especially dobermans.
Doesn't like small dogs especially
Many bad experiences with dogs.
Has a cat.
Wants a doberman.
Because she's seen them on youtube.
Knows nothing about training.
Gives no indication why she would want a dog, be a good dog owner or has no concept of what that would mean for her or the dog.
Doesn't want a dog in the short term. Only the long term.

Honestly, this is total bilge.

I think this post nails it... I am not interested in "selecting a breed" I am interested in the personality and characteristics of a well-trained doberman! I am certain I would be VERY comfortable around my own well trained doberman. I suppose if I am serious then I could consider other (large, serious) breeds.

Issue one is "how long would it take to be very well trained?" "Can I manage it?" is another issue which I am confident about. "Can the dog manage it?" is another question, and I am sure the answer is always "hopefully, every dog is different".

I work for myself, from home, and can be very flexible as a result. But, obviously, I do have commitments and can't be there 24/7.

I think where you really nail it is lifestyle, and I think a bigger house (more rural, bigger garden - things we are considering anyway), that is more dog-friendly / dog-proofable (obvs not completely, not realistic!) would probably have to be in place before it made any sense... and I'd probably also have to make a clear commitment to a lifestyle that is more focussed on the home (althought, to be fair, we already lead a life that is very much based on all of us being home most of the time.)

To anyone concerned... I am not about to make the jump, and if I were to do so I really would be taking it as seriously as possible - house, lifestyle, making as sure as possible the dog is well-bred, dog trainer identified and budgeted for before getting the dog etc etc. I get 100% that this would be an incredibly serious commitment and it will not be one I make short term, nor one I made lightly or without a very detailed plan in terms of how it's going to work.