Neutering spaniel?

[cashmerecardigans]

We recently took on a one year old springer. He’s absolutely lovely, but is entire. He came from a working kennels, basically a dog who was bought in for field trialling but didn’t make the grade as not quick enough. He’s beautifully bred, so she thought she may use him for stud, but obviously that isn’t for us.
What are peoples’ thoughts? We’ve only ever had a neutered rescue before, so not had the decision to make. Having started to read up, it appears that entire dogs can be subject to aggression from other dogs and obviously there is the issue of them potentially harassing bitches in heat.
are there any negatives to to neutering that we should consider?

I was going to post on the old thread to ask how he was settling in.
I would wait for 6 months or so until he has fully settled in before making a decision about neutering. Then you can make it based on what would be best for him.

Thanks@SpanielsGalore. He’s doing really well, the first couple of days/nights were understandably a bit difficult but something seems to have clicked and he’s much more settled and less on permanent alert, if you know what I mean?
I’ve got him booked in for 121 training. He’s not great on the lead, not pulling as much as veering all over the place as he’s incredibly scent driven. Recall is not too bad, he comes to a whistle but that really needs reinforcing as he’s easily distracted.
He’s a really lovely affectionate and cuddly boy though. Found his place on the sofa very quickly . Quite Velcro at the moment but that’s easing a little. I’m not using a crate, we did try but he got very distressed very quickly so we dropped it. It’s still up with the door open but he shows no interest in going in.
In terms of neutering, what factors would you say are key in terms of making a decision in a few months time?

We opted for chemical castration first with our cocker to test it out - he was quite submissive so wanted to ensure that didn't turn in to being fearful sans testosterone.

Our main driver was him being repeatedly humped by other male dogs (DH had to physically intervene and carry him to the car to stop a particularly relentless pair of labradors), this has massively reduced. Another benefit was that he stopped frantically marking every lamppost & tree & overall seemed more relaxed on walks - so after the chemical wore off we opted for surgical castration.

Have you had a springer before?
If he is field trial breed and would have gone for stud you need to hunt him. He will never be happy as a pet and I would get training on how to manage his hunt instinct and work with that. Wanting him to walk beside you on a walk is wishfull thinking unless he can be let off lead or on a long lead.

Neutering later will be beneficial as he will have moved from the puppy stage. Then its up to his personality and your location and how other owners have trained their dogs. He may escape if he sents a bitch in heat.

Once he is mature I would recommend neutering. I’ve always neutered ours, family have had lots of dogs which are always neutered. None of them have resulted in behavioural or health issues.

As long as you’re continuing with training and socialising then that’s the most important factor.

@cashmerecardigans Sounds like things are going well so far. Sounds like a typical adolescent as regards the recall.
I'm not an expert on the pros and cons of neutering. I had one done because he became very stressed by a local bitch in season. And I had another done because I added a bitch puppy to the family.
Sometimes it's advised against if the dog is quite nervous or anxious. So I would wait to see what his true personality is like once he is fully matured and settled in.
I estimated 6 months based on how long it has taken my foster dog to truly come out of her shell.

@AnSolaswe’ve not had a springer but we have had working cockers and a sprocker. One of the reasons we’ve got him is that he doesn’t have much of a hunt or prey drive, nor is he ball focused, so wasn’t want she needed.
Thanks @hiintrepidheroes, similarly I’ve only ever had neutered dogs, as they’ve been rescues.
And @SpanielsGalorethat’s reassuring on the recall! I need to continue to work with him in the garden or enclosed field so that it gets hardwired in.
I’m more likely than not to have him done on the long run as otherwise it seems to really limit options for a dog walker or potentially home boarding if we need it
. But I’ll wait for now and see how he develops. There are no behavioural issues so far, but it’s the likelihood of him hassling other bitches that bothers me

Neutering for behavioural issues generally isn't recommended by many vets without trying chemical castration first. And if he isn't displaying behavioural issues or experiencing harrassment from other dogs, why would you neuter him ?

The main benefits to neutering are to reduce the risks of testicular cancer and to reduce the stress if they encounter a dog in heat or if they live with unneutered female dogs. It's more accepted now that remaining entire brings benefits in terms of joint health, lowers other risks of cancers and doesn't necessarily improve behavioural issues.

That however is a broad approch and neutering pros and cons depend on sex, breed and existing nature. Either way, it's widely accepted that neutering should only be done - unless medically necessary - once a dog is fully grown.

👍
They can sometimes be slow and not field trial winner material but imo emotionally they are better if they are trained as if they will work. Lots of the training is to look back at you for instruction and seeing you as the one who decides when and where he hunts and to comeback when you call him in from a distance.

Either way enjoy the new member of the family.

@cashmerecardigans My teeny tiny working cocker is almost a year old. She had perfect recall until 7 or 8 months old. We're almost back there now, but not if deer are involved.

Our WCS was neutered in August we waited till he was over 2 as the vet recommended that, he has no issues or parsonality/temperament change he is a bit more content and playful, we have no regrets about it.

I am sure you know what you’re doing training wise if you’ve had working cockers before 😃 I have a cocker and would happily have a springer too. My boy came from a trialling home and has a lot of red in his lineage (both parents are FTCh), he is wasted on us really 😄 We do some gundog exercises with him but otherwise he very much enjoys being in our household and is chill as anything when we’re at home.

Mine is 15 months but I’m not going to get him done at all unless there’s a medical need, or if I was to add a bitch to our household. I wouldn’t do it just for the sake of it but understand if you need to for boarding etc too. My boy a bit anxious too so another reason not to for us.

I’d let yours settle in and see how you get on!

Oh his recall is spot on now, it was fine before but he could get distracted but it is great he comes back every time even if he is barking at pigeons in the garden😀

Also I disagree that wanting a spaniel to walk beside you on a walk is wishful thinking. It’s entirely possible to do (with a lot of hard work) so don’t let that put you off.

And I echo what @SpanielsGalore says about recall being normal teenage behaviour. If you keep working on it he will come back around. We had incredible recall until 6 months then it all went to shit, and now at 15 months he’s pretty solid again. We have an adolescent support thread on here which you might find helpful!

@YorkshireFelix@Coffeeishotthanks I will join the adolescent thread! The trainer I am about to use also does gundog training which we may investigate once we’ve had some 121s. TBH I’d rather not neuter him if he doesn’t need it, but we may have to consider it if I can’t find a dog walker who will walk an entire dog. I wfh a lot but there may be days we need someone to come in.
@SpanielsGalore in terms of recall, do I go back to basics with the whistle, over and over in a safe space?

And thanks @AnSolas, I agree he will need a job to do. I’m trying to make walks interesting, hiding a ball as I go etc. He’s not overly interested in balls but will play and retrieve it 2 or 3 times. He is absolutely obsessed with scent and sniffing, so we’re doing quite a bit at home for mental stimulation too.

I wouldn't unless there are compelling reasons for it. My parents had a neutered Springer cross and he had problems with cruciate ligaments in later life, which is a known risk of neutering and wouldn't become apparent during a brief period of chemical castration.

My parents paid £££ for surgery on one leg, but then the other leg developed problems and unfortunately he was getting older by then, so not suitable for surgery.

@cashmerecardigans if he’s very scent driven maybe try a rabbit ball or rabbit dummy for him to hunt. I can’t use one with mine because it sends him absolutely loopy and he won’t return with it, but might be worth a try for you. My boy isn’t interested in retrieving at all and would rather have his nose down, but I’m currently trying to build up a drive for it. I do one or two good retrieves and keep it fun, then move on to something else otherwise he gets bored. Gundog training would be fab for you I think!

With his recall, my trainer talks about the ‘three D’s’ which is distraction, duration and distance. Start off very basic and work your way up, so for example do some whistle recall inside the house, then out in the garden, then out on a walk. Adding things in like distance and duration (ie. Getting him to sit up then walking a few steps away before recalling) will help you in the long run 😃

@YorkshireFelixthanks so much, great advice and I’ll give all of those a go

@cashmerecardigans Do join us on the adolescent thread – there are lots of spaniel slaves on there and there has been a lot of training chat over the last few threads! It's a lovely, unjudgemental space.

@brushingbootsI’ve just joined and added a photo