Dog Walker Woes

[HangryHandful]

My giant breed puppy, currently 10.5 months has taken a disliking to his group dog walker. I’m not sure what it is - she’s known him since soon after we took him home, doing puppy visits and solo walks until he was old enough to join her group walks. He is great on the walks, on the lead and with the other dogs but he seems to have been triggered by something and is now showing resistance to the dog walker picking him up. I haven’t seen this behaviour in person but what she tells me I find absolutely staggering because he’s not like this at all with us - but she reports growling as she tries to get him out of his crate and snapping.

of course she can’t risk injury to herself and other dogs & doesn’t want to put my puppy into a regrettable situation so she has opted to drop him from group walks. But what could it be? Just simple as he doesn’t like her? Do I get another dog walker to keep him in groups & allow him this socialisation? I feel so disappointed & really guilty he spent so much time with someone he doesn’t like and of course so much time invested for us to ultimately start all over again.

has anyone else’s dogs taken a disliking to their dog walker?

I would ask your walker if she can pin point when / why it started , but be careful not to sound like you are blaming her.

Can you go with her , preferably without your dog knowing your there to see it for yourself?
It's almost impossible to correct behaviour you haven't witnessed.

Sorry. It sounds difficult for you and your dog.

If he has known this person since he was young, there has to be a reason for this change in his behaviour, that goes without saying. I'm sure you will have considered every possibility already so forgive me if I am asking the obvious.

You say he's not like that for you, but how much is he being crated prior to the dog walker arriving compared to being crated when you are at home? A giant breed of that age needs a lot of space to move around. They can get muscle atrophy from being crated for long periods.

Is he in pain? You don't say what breed, but is he from lines with good hips and shoulders?
Years ago my friend's family had a giant dog (I think, a Kangal) that was getting aggressive when they tried to walk it, and it turned out to have hip dysplasia. It used to hide under the table when they tried to put the collar on. Her dad was badly bitten by it in the end.

So you need to rule out a physical cause first.

Also, that age is adolescence for a large breed. Is he being territorial and just not wanting her in the house?
Otherwise, is there something she is not telling you? Has he been traumatised by something on a walk? They can go through a secondary fear period at sort of 8 or 9 months and be easily spooked by things. Is that a possibility?

The only other thing you can really do is introduce him to a different dog walker and see what happens then. But obviously it takes time to build trust with a large dog, particularly a male of this age.

Thanks for your response.

It started one day getting him out of her van at the walk site - he’s first to get out as he’s the only one one lead (youngest with questionable recall) as she was leaning in to put the lead on. I had thought it may be due to her leaning into his space but you’re right it’s hard to know without knowing.

once on the walk though he was fine, well mannered and there were no further issues. Since then it’s happened a few times and then also a few times when she arrived to pick him up he’d either be in his crate or run to his crate (it’s in the kitchen with the door open all the time) as if he just didn’t want to go with her and then would show some resistance to go with her.

I’ll have a proper chat with her tonight and see if she wants to try and work it out & stick with us or if she wants a break. I feel like I need to listen to my dog though - he’s made his feelings clear I suppose.

I was thinking maybe I could try and join her on a walk with him - with him knowing I’m there so he feels supported etc? I’m so unsure tbh. He’s a perfect dog in every other area (chews a lot of things but he’s a baby so is forgiven).

worth noting he is a giant guardian breed which is why I thought he may have taken issue with her leaning into his space. I had suggested leaving his lead on during transit to the walk but she wasn’t comfortable with that. I think she’s in a hurry to get him and onto pick up the next clients dog so it’s a hurried “come outside and get in the van” and he’s very much a slow, steady, doesn’t care if you’re in a rush kind of dog.

Sorry I cross posted, to answer a few more queries, he’s a maremma sheepdog from very good and healthy lines and had a recent positive health check.

He’s never crated as such - he never liked the door being shut so I never shut it apart from very small periods of time like when kids were eating etc. otherwise the kitchen is basically his extended crate and he has plenty room to move around, though sleeps most of the day whether we are home or not. Generally is just very laid back, as is typical for his breed.

he’s not being territorial/not wanting her in the house, it sort of gives moody teenager vibes? Like he’s taken himself to his crate & just doesn’t want to interact with her. So she can come in fine and he’ll ignore her but when she tries to get him out he’s not interested at all. She has said nothing has happened with her but also agrees this doesn’t come out of nowhere, but I also can’t think of anything that all that could have brought this on.

just a bit of a muddle! And very much interested in hearing other people’s thoughts on the situation as I find it so confusing.

I had an entire reply typed out, but just saw your update. I am genuinely pretty shocked you chose to crate him given his natural instincts and size. I cannot imagine a worse idea tbh.

But, that aside, I'd put good money on her accidentally hurting him, forcing his hand (i.e. dragging him out of his crate, out of the van etc. more than once) and him no longer liking her. The only times I can think of that a dog I know of has turned on someone they've known for so long has been one of two reasons (A) Physical pain (and honestly, I cannot imagine crating a dog that size - you are setting yourself up for long-term joint issues if your dog is spending significant amount of time in their crate at that age and size and, (B) poor dog etiquette from the person involved. Could be either/or in this case.

@Aubrielle - tagging you as the resident Guardian breed expert, as you have had young, male, LGDs before! 😊

Awww, the poor baby. I really feel for him (and for you).

Sorry, I think I misunderstood - didn't realise you meant the crate in her van.

If he's fine once he's walking, it doesn't sound physical.

It does seem more likely that something has really badly spooked him, but obviously it's going to be very difficult to figure out exactly what, when or where....

He doesn't like her. Change dog walkers.

I have never had a dog walker (I've had three different ones) whom my dog wasn't extremely excited at seeing. If your dog doesn't want to go with her, don't force him. There must be a reason.

Firstly, he needs to see a vet in case there’s any issues with pain. Unfortunately it’s common for large breeds to develop joint problems.

However as he’s a guardian breed I do expect his breed instincts are now kicking in and he’s not a fan of this walker coming into his space and taking him away from his home.

What was the reason you picked a giant guardian breed and put him into group walks, out of curiosity?

I just want to be clear he’s not crated - his crate is his safe space but the door is very very rarely closed. I have 2 young kids so we need a space that is his own and he can go to for his own safety and we make it very clear to the kids that his his space, and his space alone. Basically his crate is just where his bed and a few toys are but I genuinely can’t remember the last time the door was actually closed - he has free access in and out as he pleases.

we did a lot of research before we settled on this breed, and dog, in particular. The group walks were more for socialisation which I think wasn’t a bad thing as he enjoys the walks themselves and gets on very well with the other dogs. We live rurally but when out on walks together see dogs from time to time, so I did want to make sure he knew how to behave around other dogs so I felt it important he was walked with other well mannered dogs at times to teach him prosper social etiquette.

as mentioned he has seen the vet & it’s not pain related, he’s in good health. I think a previous poster is right and he just doesn’t like this walker, so I’m going to respect him & he won’t see her again.

As he comes into maturity it’s very likely that he won’t like any walker. These breeds are not pets.

Already here @LandSharksAnonymous

Okay, he's a Maremma. I'm Pyreneans so not dissimilar. They are both among the more healthy and sound giant breeds structurally - much better than the real heavyweights. I'm also glad to see that his crate is open. That's good to hear.

They are very, very sensitive dogs but you will already know that so I'm kind of saying it for other people's benefit. They are 100% committed to family, but everyone else can go to hell. More or less.

I'd say it's typical adolescent male LGD and he just doesn't like her in his space any more. Although friendly as pups, they become a lot more aloof as they get older - some more so than others. They also become more territorial during adolescence. They're calm at home but if something gives them the hump they'll let you know.

Really, it's anyone's guess as to exactly what happened but if she's been pushed for time and hauled him bodily out of the crate that would be enough to really bother him. If he's like mine, he won't react to you (gently) hauling him around but if anyone else does it he will not be happy. These dogs are total control freaks, they don't like being rushed or pressured, they do things in their own time. It does not make them the most co-operative group of dogs.

I agree with @tumblingdowntherabbithole that as he matures, group walks may not suit him so well so play that one by ear. Once they start to have an issue with a particular dog being in their space it can be game over. Our previous PMD boy was placid until he spotted the Malamute from across the road, then all hell broke loose. But that was territorial so tours might still be okay on neutral ground obviously.

We've had 8 PMD (4m, 4f) and been lucky enough to be able to walk them ourselves, but if I was in your position I honestly think I'd look for a different dog walker.
Again, I'm stating the obvious I know, but I'd be very surprised if he forgave her for whatever has offended him.

I really hope you can find someone he gets along with, so he can enjoy his walks again.
It's a wonderful breed ❤ I love all the LGD but the big white ones are the best!

Thank you so much @TheRenegade! yes totally appreciate how sensitive he is and I do think it’s quite likely she’s done something to offend him. we’re lucky to have a lot of dog walkers in the area and she’s not his only one (he LOVES the other one but she doesn’t walk him in a group but does walk him with her dog).

he’s just so wonderful and I don’t want to do anything that might push him over the edge of course. I’ll consider another walker but agree group walking just may not be necessary… I suppose he has enough “friends” (family dogs) that he sees regularly enough but has learned some good manners from the group walks… if strictly solo walks are his thing that’s okay and we can make that happen. He only has this one group walk and I suppose this is maybe just his way of saying that he’s not for it.

@TheRenegade knew I could count on your experience/expertise to provide good guidance 😁

Sounds like you really love him @HangryHandful and I bet he's gorgeous!

You'll figure it out, but really all LGD are kind of antisocial weirdoes compared to "normal" dogs. They are addictive - my current girl is my 8th, as I said. They've been my life. Not the easiest dogs but just so full of love for their family.

If ever I can help with anything LGD related, just give me a shout. I'm sometimes on the adolescent or puppy threads but if you mention giant or LGD dog I'll probably be the first to pop up!

You outed me, there 🙄 I thought I was invisible 😂

Thanks for all the advice! Absolutely the most gentlest beautiful boy I’ve ever known & I love how much personality he has! I can well see how they can become addictive. Can’t imagine life without him!

photo as thanks :)

What a gorgeous boy ❤ Look at those eyes.

It is such a rare breed but so beautiful. Thank you for sharing this photo - it's made my day 😊

I'm sure you'll figure out the solution for his walks. It's probably just his LGD antisocial weirdness kicking in!

If you have enough commitment they can be wonderful pets. It is a very unique group of dogs, they're not for everyone, but if they're handled correctly and well socialised, they make excellent family dogs.

My Cocker spaniel took a real aversion to his dog walker, he was fine till he wasn't he was intact at the time so we wondered if it might be that, he stopped liking going out with her around 11/12 months, we parted ways she wasn't willing to upset him which is fair,

We now have a lovely walker who walks him from home so no vans no other dogs, I hope you can get to the bottom of the issue.

I should probably clarify - they’re not pets for your average person. You need a lot of knowledge to be able to keep one safely in the average home.

Absolutely true. It's why I never recommend my breed to anyone. They are incredibly strong and stubborn, you can't really train them in the same way as a normal dog because they're too independent minded. Plus the protective instinct can be a liability and the bark is loud! They're very special, they get in your blood, but you need to have 100% commitment to live with them in the house. You need to understand their heritage and how their brains work, because they just aren't like other dogs.