Feeling at a loss.

[JuicyDrop]

Hi all.
We picked up an 8 week old fox red Labrador puppy on Saturday- much wanted and years of waiting until ‘the time was right’. We have a five year old son who is on awaiting an assessment for autism but has been round his aunties dogs all his life and never shown any real fear.

My son is not coping too well at all with the new puppy and my mum guilt is horrendous. I feel like I’ve ripped his life in two. Puppy is a nibbler and he seems to do this the whole time he is awake. He’s going for our hands, our feet, the sofa, our clothing. I’m sure this is all normal but it’s non-stop. I try redirecting him everytime with one of his toys but it lasts for a few minutes then he starts again on us. My son is not coping with this at all and has become actively scared of the puppy. I’m having to be on hand 24/7 to intervene if he jumps up at my little boy- it’s becoming impossible to leave him or the puppy alone for even a minute to make a drink or cook. I hope this will improve when my son is back at school tomorrow and I can have dedicated time to start training some better habits.
The puppy himself is doing well apart from the biting- he’s weeing outside and telling me when he needs a poo. He’s sleeping all night in his crate if I’m beside him on the sofa- aiming to move that distance over time. He does not like being left alone though through the day- he won’t actively go to his crate for a nap and sleeps at my feet during the day. I’ve tried giving him ten minute spells in his crate with the door shut through the day just to hang washing out or spend some time with my little boy but he howls and cries the whole time.
I suppose there are already some puppy blues and I hate admitting it- it’s more the impact it’s having on my little boy which is a curve ball we didn’t expect at all. Got the school runs starting tomorrow and still not sure what I’m doing with the puppy- I’d naively thought that he’d sleep in his crate while I was gone for the half hour it takes but it’s seeming that’s not going to be possible either. I don’t drive so haven’t got a car to take him with me or anything and he’s too heavy to carry that distance.
just here for support really- this puppy was much wanted and still is. I just feel so stressed out with it all.

Honestly, this is just a puppy thing, it will be so worth it.

Biting - get your son to have a toy on him all the time and when pup bites toy gets shoved in pups mouth. He doesn't have to play just hold. If not then you need to do it for him. Over time they learn then to play with the toys when they want to bite. Dogs need to bite their whole lives so they need to learn what is appropriate. If it gets too much separate but honestly teaching them what to bite and chew is a long term investment! I've seen the aftermath of dogs being ignored as pups and they have no outlet for that need.

That's fair, as long as the dog is contained he will be fine for half an hour.

This is what I have been doing. He’s taken a particular liking to a crocodile toy and each time he has been in a bitey mood I’ve given him that instead and just repeat each time he comes back for more goes on us.
He has definitely been a little better today- he’s had two periods of really bad bitey behaviour and that was mid morning and after tea- lasted about twenty minutes and both of these times he was really excited and having proper ‘zoomies’.
Im beginning to see a pattern to his behaviours and when they are more likely to happen and act accordingly. We’ve had no accidents at all in the house today either so he’s doing very well and starting to ask to go out when he needs the toilet.

Puppies are hard work, I’d definitely invest in a playpen area where you could at least separate the puppy and your child. Ensure plenty of toys and occasionally give treats like kongs, yak chews, carrots, licky mats to keep the puppy occupied.

Obviously allow the puppy lots of time out too to play, explore the garden, training, socialising, grooming, cuddles etc and then hopefully he will be more tired when you do have to put him away for a bit. Good luck, it will be worth the effort.

Some will, some won't.

Contrary to popular opinion separation anxiety isn't caused by not leaving them soon enough, it's far more likely to be caused by leaving them before they're ready and then it becomes a much bigger thing to sort out.

On the puppy pen thing, mine (also lab) could climb out of a puppy pen at 8 weeks, it wouldn't have been useful for containment!

@HauntedHero is 100% right. But the same nonsense is trotted out on every ‘when can I leave my puppy’ post.

OPs friends are lucky they didn’t cause serious issues. I know a Cavapoo puppy that broke its back legs breaking out a playpen (scaled it). And another dog that dislocated its jaws on the bars of its crate. One left alone ‘so the owner could make tea’ and another got the school run. So yeah, leaving your puppy before it’s ready - particularly as in Ops case the dog is already showing its unhappy - is m stupid at best and downright negligent at worst.

Please , how do you know if a puppy has separation anxiety?
We've got a super little puppy and we've gradually left her for short periods of time, we give her a lick pad when we have to leave the house. Usually when we return she's been asleep and is very pleased to see us.
I'm loathe to put a camera in to observe her when we're not here, I just wondered how the anxiety presents .

Why are you loathed to use a camera? Ours cost £20 was easy to set up and made sure when we were training our dog to be ok alone she never panicked as we could work around her. We just turn it on when we go out.

Most puppies are not ok alone. It’s just fact. Ours wasn’t consistently until she was 18 months old and then we had some wobbles. She’s fine now because we’ve put the work in and supported her through the wobbles.

The fact the biggest reason for the surrender of young dogs to rescue is separation anxiety is a big clue to how it goes. Yes dogs need to learn to be alone for periods of time, it’s healthy for them but only if done at the dogs pace.

We've got cameras and set them up when we're all out of the house. I don't want to watch her in case she's unhappy.. what could I do if I was ten miles away?
We've gradually extended the time we leave her by incremental timings.
My question is, how does separation anxiety present itself?
How did people know before the advent of cameras?

As I've said she's a superstar little puppy, we feel very lucky that she's so happy and relaxed.
We've put in lots of effort and time, taken her to training and puppy parties. She's met loads of different age people and dogs all shapes and sizes and takes things in her stride. We know the signals to look out for if she's not happy.

Sorry for invading your thread @JuicyDrop , I should have started my own.
It's early days for your puppy, their clingyness should reduce as they become more familiar with their surroundings. I'd say give it just a little more time.

No problem at all.

We honestly love him so much already- I know it’s all normal and he is doing so well.
:)

I'm absolutely no expert, I have a 6 year old dog and 6 month old baby, so very different set up. But when ours was a pup he went through the infamous nibbling stage. I saw on a documentary about guide dogs and assistance dogs, that when they're training the puppies they spend a lot of time rubbing around the pups mouth and nose, to teach it how to be gentle. We tried it, and it did seem to work - he still nibbled and liked to play, but learned to be far gentler. Also definitely have some puppy teething toys around, ours loved the flavoured nyla bones.

So your son is less scared, could you maybe try to play it down, and make it seem almost a bit fun and silly when puppy nibbles you? Like "Ouch, the silly naughty puppy is nibbling me again! Let's tell him - no biting!" - I don't have much experience with autism, so unsure if that would help, but that'd be my instinct.

You don’t go ten miles away whilst you’re training. You need to be able to come home quickly.

Some dogs vocalise, poo, pee, destroy things or themselves. Some sit and worry. It’s all stress and has a knock on effect.

Im sure someone will have the unicorn puppy who is totally chilled with being alone for day one. But I’ve not met one yet.

Our puppy is 7months old, we've gradually built up the time we leave her alone. I work ten miles away so we stagger our working day so she's never alone for longer than two and a half hours . My retired brother helps out and checks in with her as well.
I was just asking what the signs of anxiety are and she doesn't show any at all so wondered if I was missing something.

Thank you - that really helps.

I do try and make light of it and say those sort of things but my son still seems to be scared of him with the nibbling. He’ll happily interact with him when he’s calmer but is not happy at all with the crazy periods we have where the puppy is zooming all over the place and jumping up and nibbling.
I do give him a toy each time and play with him myself while he’s doing it and these periods usually last for about half an hour and then he tires himself out and has a snooze.

Please may you explain the process of when the pup is struggling tombe alone and you come home to address that issue- what do you actually do if you return in the house and the pup is still in the throes of upset.?
i imagine that you wait for a break in the crying etc and only then go to them? Thus reinforcing that they are picked up when quiet ? Not when crying?
spefically-!what do you do please?

Please may you explain what work you put in specifically?
Also , can you please recommend a book or an online course that we can follow - we are about to get a puppy and want to be informed as possible- and take positive action.
-Below are the thingsnwe would do - but these are instinctive - not kmowledge and we want to set good foundation s.

• pen - / would wait until a break in crying - then go then.
• biting- say owhh or wine or no. Offer something else to chew
• toilet training - on the hour each hour- avoiding pee pads in house . When wees say a special word or praise reserved fo r weeing
• encorage pup to approach us using the word come
• sleep - in playpen - us next to her - gradually withdraw
• socialise from day one - walk round out street with her in arms
• contnue socialisation daily- see buses , other dogs , shope etc
• try to encourage sleep time - but am not sure how! Our last pup woke every time we moved !

Could you please advise a good resource on line or book. ? I do not want to launch from thing - but want consistency. for eg in pen - if she jumps up to ask to be let out - say in the night . I know need to resist- but what do I actually do - i cant lie next toma crying pup - but at same time want her to stay in the pen. ( we use a crate inside an pen - that way she can have a poo in the. Night if needed but it wont be in her bedroom.

thankyou

We’ve not had much luck with getting our puppy to stay in the crate through the day- he will sleep in there if I settle him first and I leave the door open. However the minute I move he wakes up and follows me 9 times out of ten. He also won’t go inside to sleep willingly without encouragement. However I’ve noticed that when it’s my husband he does go into the crate of his own accord and husband can move around the house more willingly without pup following him. He doesn’t seem overly sure on my husband yet so I think that’s why he uses his crate more with him than me.
on a night he sleeps fine in the crate if I am next to him on the sofa, only waking for a wee. However I have tried to distance myself away from him by moving to the sofa on the opposite side of the room and he doesn’t like that and will cry instantly till I’m back next to him.
it is hard work - I don’t feel even able to do the house work upstairs because all advice here is not to leave them crying in the crate for even ten minutes while I sort some laundry or clean the shower but I also don’t want to leave him downstairs unsupervised. X

@JuicyDrop honestly I think you'll find that things will naturally get easier once the pup feels settled into his new home.
At first our little pup had to come with me to the shower if no-one else was indoors as she felt abandoned. Gradually after a couple of weeks she gained confidence and would let me go upstairs without making a fuss.

They need to gain confidence in their own way. They will but they’ll only do it if you are there for them in the early days. So no. Go to them if they cry. If they stop they’re not feeling better. They’ve just given up and know you don’t have their back.

cry it out has been debunked again and again. We gave our pup attention every time she asked as a pup. She’s now a super independent adult - no forced separation. She learnt to trust us and gained it herself. It just comes in time.

The only way you’ll know is to observe. If not you are just hoping for the best. I’m not sure why you have a camera if you are not going to use it!

It will get easier and puppy will settle more. He’s a baby and in a new environment away from his siblings. Keep at the crate though. 30 mins will be fine for now if he’s done a wee before. Maybe put an item of your clothing in the crate and put the tv on. I defo recommend an indoor camera for when you start to leave him more. I just want to see he is absolutely beautiful. I’m so envious id love a red fox lab 😍 I have a black lab xx

I have a nearly 5 month old Lab puppy who I have had from 8 weeks. I also have a son (he is 7 though so a little older and is NT)
Definitely normal puppy behaviour in my limited experience.

The one thing I was incredibly strict on from day 1 (and still even now) is making sure he slept enough. Mine was, and still is, the same in that he will follow me room to room and will not nap during the day unless I am in the same room as him. So I stay in the same room as him. DS knows not to disturb him if he is asleep. I moved my desk down to the living room and work in there and he sleeps on the sofa. I did my ‘chores’ etc while he was awake, this was also useful for us as I didn’t want to give him 100% of my attention the whole time he was awake. I wanted him to learn to amuse himself. Sleep (or lack thereof) is the single biggest cause of land-shark attacks for mine.

Play pen didn’t work for us, I bought one and he immediately proceeded to climb out of it when he was about 9 weeks old so that was a none-starter. I did get a gate across the kitchen (which is puppy proofed) which is probably the best investment I made. The biting improved massively as soon as I prioritised him sleeping enough. And then improved so much more again once he could go out for walks.

I didn’t leave him in the house alone for a good while, he came on all school runs with me (appreciate that’s hard because you haven’t got a car) and I carried him from the car to outside the school gates and back to the car again. I built up time alone gradually. Building up from literally a few seconds to minutes - where it was long enough for me to sit in my car and watching from a puppy cam. Once I was sure he was ok for long enough for me to do the school run then I started leaving him at home for one of them each day.

Im fairly certain I got a very placid pup, and this is my first dog so I always want to make that clear in case I am talking rubbish, but at nearly 5 months old, the bite attacks happen at most a couple of times a week at this stage and he can be left home alone for an hour with no signs of distress. At home, he is mostly pretty chilled and happy to amuse himself or just sleep. I appreciate though that this may have nothing to do with what I have done and everything to do with being lucky! I just wanted to say, it is possible for things to improve massively for you even in a short space of time.

There is a puppy survival thread running on this forum if you wanted to join 😊