Puppy food - advice needed please

[Newpupneeded]

Brought a new puppy home a couple of weeks ago, an 8 week old standard schnauzer.

Breeder sent home puppy food with him, Royal Canin (medium dog)

Firstly, the recommended amount seems massive - 234 grams - and he’s not eating anywhere that much across 4 meals a day.

Secondly, this is not rated very highly on All About Dog Food. (40%) compared to (68%)

Thirdly, do puppies really need specific puppy food?

After seeing it recommended on here, I now feed my other two smaller dogs CI Tickety Boo food, varying between meat and fish versions.

I do have some of their wet puppy food - only because that is all they have in stock and I have a fussy eater - is there any issues if I combine that with the dried food for the pup?

Dog food does seem to have got very complicated these days compared to my childhood dog who got tinned Pedigree Chum and biscuits!

Are you getting puppy specific RC kibble?

That’s what the breeder gave me

What weight is she?

https://www.royalcanin.com/uk/dogs/products/retail-products/puppy---medium-3003

Input details and calculates how much you should be feeding

"Firstly, the recommended amount seems massive - 234 grams - and he’s not eating anywhere that much across 4 meals a day."
As long as he's eating happily and not too thin he's probably getting enough.

"Secondly, this is not rated very highly on All About Dog Food. (40%) compared to (68%)"
I didn't know what this site was so looked it up and the "About us" section. It's run by David Jackson and his border terrier Ned apparently. David has a degree in zoology. Ned doesn't. David received "in house training" at a dog food manufacturing company and as far as I can see has no further academic qualifications or published papers on canine nutrition, physiology or gastroenterology or anything like that. I would be inclined to value Ned's opinion as much as David's TBH.

Thirdly, do puppies really need specific puppy food?
Yes. As they are growing, their protein and calorie requirements are a bit different and they're more susceptible to mineral imbalances, especially the calcium:phosphorus ratio. You may well get away with feeding adult food but you might not. Once they're adult, allergies and obesity issues aside, they're a bit more forgiving.

Mine came home on Eukanuba. That also had a ridiculously high RDA that she only managed about a quarter of.
I switched mine to Orijen and she only needed about 80 gms a day of that. When I compared the puppy kibble with the adult one, the protein, calcium and phosphorus levels are exactly the same. The only difference I could find was the size of the pieces of kibble. The adult version even gives a puppy feeding guide.
Similarly, I fed a previous dog Eden and that was described as 'for all life stages'.
So no. I don't think puppies do need a specific puppy food. But yes, I still bought one. Mainly because she was tiny and I thought she needed the smaller pieces. I switched her to the same adult food as my other dog at around 7 months of age.

We also have a schnauzer pup but a mini, fed on RC puppy kibble. Breeder told us 50g 3x a day. That seems a lot to me as it’s more than his adult brother eats and he’s doing about 5 poos a day.

100% this.

My dog (6y golden retriever) is on CI kibble and butchers tins as these are some of the very few dog foods she seems to enjoy. We tried dozens! She won't eat raw and sadly dislikes Forthglade which is nutritionally really good and is what her breeder feeds their dogs on.

CI also do a puppy food and are really good about sending good sized free samples, so that might be worth trying, since you're already buying food from them.

Similarly, I fed a previous dog Eden and that was described as 'for all life stages'.

At the time we brought our oldest puppy home, Eden wasn't allowed to be described as suitable for all life stages. I can't quite recall the detail, but it was something to do with a certain nutritional detail relating to large breed puppies (maybe too much calcium). I think it's changed now

Um l have a 13 year spanual, not telling you what to do , we got loads of help from our vet when moss was a puppy , l don't know if this helps

I fed it in 2021. Don't know if it's different now.

@LandSharksAnonymous and @powershowerforanhour

Genuine question. This is the listing for Orijen Original and Puppy foods. Other than fat content, I can't see a difference. In your opinions, why is one not suitable for puppies? (Orijen gives a puppy feeding guide for the 'adult' food too.)

You might be best going into a small/independent type pet shop - they’re generally good at giving advice based on the dog in front of them! Mine sells an own branded food that’s nutritionally the same as some of the branded stuff but cheaper - I think it’s literally the same with a different label on. I did feed puppy food, I thought it was more calorie dense or slightly different vitamins or something - my dog is larger though and I was told that made a difference.

@SpanielsGalore puppies need more fat in their food 😊 priorities for puppy food are fat, protein and calcium.

Fat = fuel for muscles
Protein = muscle growth
Calcium = bones

So even though it doesn’t seem like much of a difference it’s super important

@SpanielsGalore some puppy-suitable dog food is also okay for adults - e.g. Millie's recommendations for puppies (depending on breed and activity) is their 50/50 - Bill's on their duck and veg. When he approached 12 months I got in contact as I know puppies have different nutritional needs for protein and fat, though I can't remember why (I did once), and they said he'd be best staying on the 50/50 till at least 18 months and could stay on beyond if he was happy on it. I think it's not so much that puppy and adult food is fundamentally always different, but that lots of adult food (but not all) isn't great for puppies.

@LandSharksAnonymous Thank you. The man in the pet shop told me it was down to protein levels, and when I pointed out they were the same he was stumped. I bought the puppy version anyway as I am a marketer's dream. 😂

Mind you. I just looked at Country Kibble Puppy food and it has lower protein, fat and calcium levels than Orijen's Adult. It's a bloody minefield!

@Bupster Honestly. The more you look into it, the more confusing it gets. I wanted to move all my dogs onto the same food and spent hours looking into different brands. I consulted a canine nutritionist in the end and she said K was alright to switch to CK Adult food at 6 months old.

Thank you everyone, really helpful to know why puppy food is different from adult food. Makes sense.

There is a good local pet shop and I have used their own brand food before until one dog went off it. Will see what they have.

Awww we have a miniature schnauzer puppy!
Ignore the floof, he’s due a groom

@Bupster @SpanielsGalore @LandSharksAnonymous
I opted not to feed Millies Wolfheart until my pup turned one year, because they have no specific puppy foods. I was not happy with that for a giant breed pup. I actually kept her on the Large Breed puppy food that the breeder started her out on. It is not the best food brand by any means, but it suited her and she did well on it.
With our previous dogs, we put them onto adult food much earlier, probably around 6 months. With this pup we have completely maximised the growth period, she has turned out to be the biggest and sturdiest of our puppies, and we don't believe it is entirely genetic. We are convinced that 12 months on a specific large breed puppy food has played a massive part.

@CoubousAndTourmalet I cannot deny that Brie is particularly beautiful with a lovely coat (and large)! 😄

I must say, I kept twatdog on Royal Canin Goldie puppy food for 18 months. Usually I switch over once the other pups have gone, but he has also done wonderfully on it. Huge, bigger than any of his littermates or parents, and with a lovely shiny coat!

Ah, that's interesting. Brie was on Purina Large Robust Puppy, which is probably similar to RC in regard to not being highly thought of by a lot of dog people. I tried her on "better" foods early on; Vitalin, a couple of the superfoods type puppy foods with salmon, turkey, but none of them really suited her.

I'm not saying Millies is terrible by the way- it is an excellent range of food. Nor am I suggesting that nobody should switch to adult food before 12 months, not at all, but for us, with a giant breed, it wasn't the right choice.

Strangely we thought she was full size at 6 or 7 months, at least in relation to height, which was similar to the previous three girls. Then, she suddenly had a massive growth spurt at 9-10 months. Technically she's too big, for the showring at least - she's larger than some males. And size isn't everything - I do have some worries about the fast growth rate, but, nonetheless, we have learned from the puppy food experience, that it is worth keeping them on puppy/junior if you want a big solid pup, though obviously genetics plays a part in that also.

That's interesting @CoubousAndTourmalet and @LandSharksAnonymous.
Neither of those foods score highly on the All About Dog foods site, that everyone is referred to these days. And yet the evidence in front of you says different. ❤
I switched K at around 7-8 months and she's on the small side. Her breeder estimated she'd be around 10kg, but she'll be lucky to reach 8kg.

That's very true about Royal Canin and Purina ratings. But I think @powershowerforanhour makes an interesting post about the All About Dog Foods site here though. Clearly the information there is helpful for comparison, but it possibly shouldn't be taken as the most significant factor in our choices of food. Certainly for us, this time around, it was noticeable that what appeared to be the best foods on paper, at least as far as the integrity of ingredients goes, didn't actually turn out to be the best options for our puppy in regard to palatability or digestion.

It's interesting what you say about your girl. Our two previous bitches were fed on the same James Wellbeloved lamb kibble as our adult male from quite early on, as I recall. This was 25 years ago, so I can't specifically remember, but certainly they weren't on puppy food for long. Both were very petite adults.

I'm not sure you need much of a qualification to look at these two ingredients lists for puppy food and come to a conclusion about quality. It'd be one thing if the first was cheap but it's £££

Dehydrated Poultry Protein, Maize, Vegetable Protein Isolate, Rice, Maize Flour, Animal Fats, Maize Gluten, Hydrolysed Animal Proteins, Wheat Flour, Beet Pulp, Fish Oil, Minerals, Vegetable Fibres, Soya Oil, Fructo-Oligo-Saccharides (0.34%), Psyllium Husks and Seeds, Hydrolysed Yeast, Hydrolysed Crustaceans, Borage Oil, Yeasts Extracts, Marigold Extract, Hydrolysed Cartilage.

Turkey 32.5% (17.5% freshly prepared turkey, 15% dried ground turkey), Dried Sweet Potato (26%), Dried Peas, Gelatine, Chicken Fat, Dried Beet Pulp, Dried Fruit (2.3%: apples, pears, blueberries, cranberries), Brewer’s Yeast, Salmon Oil (1%), Dried Botanicals (0.6%: Fennel, Nettle, Dandelion), Mannan-oligosaccharide, Egg Powder, Chicory Extract, Dried Seaweed, Camomile, Flaxseed Oil, Glucosamine (300mg/kg), Chondroitin Sulphate (300mg/kg), Yucca Extract (0.02%).