Cockaliers

[arlequin]

Very keen to hear from anyone who has a cockalier what they’re like as pets. We are looking to take a very long run into this and are particularly interested in them as a family dog for a family in outer London. Could I ask their energy levels compared to a cocker or cavalier? I’d be very interested to hear about either show or working cocker crosses. It would be imperative for us to find a puppy from a responsible breeder where both parents have been fully health tested so I’d be very interested to hear if anyone knows of one.

Thanks so much!

I've got one. Sweet dog, a bit needy and desperate to please, runs around like a rocket and much more working spaniel in temperament than lapdog. Looks like a mini springer more than anything else. Quite excitable (and therefore yips a bit when wound up) but overall no major issues and generally, just a really nice, robust little dog.

It's not just about parents health tests, though they are important.

Ideally you should also be wanting to see grandparents health tests where possible - some dogs will have very healthy parents, but incredibly unhealthy grandparents (and that is just as much of an issue as unhealthy parents).

For example, there's a Golden Retriever being studded atm (and is producing a LOT of puppies, his elbow scores are 1/1. That's not a great score (and personally, I wouldn't use him as a stud for that reason), but his dad's score (so the grandad of the puppies), elbow score is 2/2 - which means he should never really have been bred from.

So whilst the puppies will looks good on paper, it's actually pretty bad as historically one of the grandparents has a serious (incredibly serious) propensity to elbow dysplasia.

I don't know any cockaliers, but I know a lot of cockerpoos, and health testing does need to be carefully done. I am a real stickler for health tests (preferably generational) because some things are important enough that you do want to know if the grandparents have issues.

I don't have experience with Cockaliers themselves and I'm not against cross breeds (have a Jackapoo myself), always bear in mind that the personality of a dog could be varied. Cockers are often very active both physically and mentally, when these needs are not met it can lead to behaviour issues. On the other hand Cavaliers are more laid back, loyal (can be prone to separation anxiety), and are also prone to some health issues like Mitral Valve Disease.

Just because you get a mixed breed, doesn't mean the dog will be 50:50 these things. You could get a dog with 99% personality of a cocker spaniel. Just worth considering 😊

Thanks so much everyone - really interesting to read.

I'm not sure that you will ever have any luck finding a responsible breeder who breeds Cockaliers. Thing is, they are a mixed breed, often bred for popularity rather than health and temperament. Reputable breeders prioritize the well-being of their dogs, which means they would likely not breed a high-quality purebred dog with a non-purebred. If the owners of those dogs had quality purebred dogs they would be breeding purebred dogs.. not mixes. Those mixes can still end up as amazing dogs, but this is the sad truth about "designer breeds".
As for character and health, again, it's a mixed breed. Their health and temperament is inconsistent. It's stil a much better choice than any poodle cross, because at least they have similar coats.
If you have started out wanting a cavalier, but are wary of health problems: there are cavalier breeders who breed for health, not aesthetics.

Thanks @GelatinousDynamoI appreciate that. If we were to get a cavalier I would be concerned about the health issues in the same ways. We actually prefer the more natural looking snout of the cocker which is why this mix might appeal to us but I do understand your point entirely.

If there was a cavalier that had a less extreme snout we would be very interested

There are now some that a bred to be less flat faced.

as regards original q. As will all crosses you have absolutely no idea till they grow up whether they’ll be all cavvie , all cocker or something in between in temperament and looks. The one I meet looks like a cavvie on stilts 😀😀

health evidence to as detailed a degree as you can but I’d have one at the drop of a hat over a poo cross ( cavvie owner - I have the perfect cavvie - lap dog / cuddles / sleep all day but also 5 mile+ walks in the lakes given the chance - he has taken to nearly 6 to settle though😀) . Oh and he is tall and snouty ish. No flat faced noisy breathing.

@Helenloveslee4evathats wonderful! Thanks. Would you mind sharing the breeder?

Actually, the (UK) King Charles Spaniel is the toy breed with the shorter snout and the (US) Cavalier King Charles Spaniel is a breed that is slightly larger and has a longer snout. They are two separate breeds. I think you might be confusing them. But the Cavaliers are still very prone to heart disease and neurological issues, so I'd pick the breeder very carefully, particularly with them breeding dogs like Cavaliers that don’t have a lot of healthy parents to begin with.

@GelatinousDynamoI don’t think I’m confusing them… I had a good look on champ dogs under cavalier and they still seem to be more flat faced than cockers. What I would like is one of the less flat faced ones ideally! With fully health tested parents… if anyone knows of any breeders I’d be very interested to learn more! Thanks so much

My main advice when buying any dog where you don't have reasonable first-hand knowledge of the breeder is to ensure that you check with the licensing council how many breeding animals they are licensed for, and don't give your money to puppy farmers (however charming their website and 'front of house' may be).

Here is a picture of those two breeds next to one another (admittedly I've only just googled it, but the one on the right is how a cavalier should look like). You can see that the KCS has an almost pug-like snout, while the CKCS does not.
BUT the longer snout does not eliminate the high risk of heart disease.

https://www.champdogs.co.uk/litter/74086 here’s an example of what I mean about the snout - beautiful puppies but not quite what we’re looking for

No way, how awful, just look at my post above yours... What you've linked in NOT how a Cav is supposed to look like. Those poor dogs.

I need to edit this a little: the KCS was bred in England, but with a longer snout, which got shorter and shorter over the years due to fashion. A US breeder "developed" the CKCS because he wanted to achieve the "original" look and avoid the health issues. I've had a quick Google and there doesn't seem to be much differentiation between those two (really completely separate) breeds going on in England. You need to find a breeder who knows the difference.

@arlequin you'd have to be insane to go for that litter though, the mother isn't even fully health tested and one set of grandparents aren't health tested at all.

This is everything to do with bad breeding, and nothing to do with the breed itself.

Thanks @LandSharksAnonymous. We’re not looking for now anyway but could anyone direct me to breeders that fulfil all the criteria?

It seems such a minefield and would love to know where to look for what we want

The honest answer is finding a breeder is all on you.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I think finding a breeder is like finding a partner/husband/wife - it's an incredibly personal choice. It can take months to find a decent breeder for the breed you want - even really common breeds like cocker spaniels and cavaliers - and then months to wait for a litter.

Someone could post on this thread and say they've found a breeder, and you'll think 'oh, well that person recommends this breeder, that must mean they're good.' But, 99.9% of the time, the puppies that person is breeding will not be right for you, or you won't be happy with the health tests etc. People pop up all the times on mumsnet, saying they've found a good breeder of XYZ breed but actually when you dig deeper, it turns out it was a puppy farmer, or no health tests were done, or there were huge glowing red flags.

Your best starting point should be your local breed club, followed by cross-checking the breeders on Champ Dogs and the KC website (which is the only way to be 100% sure of the health tests going back generations). Even then, you need to be careful as the local breed club will, sometimes, recommend breeders who are completely inappropriate (there was a poster a while ago who found a KC registered, breed club recommended, golden breeder. It turned out to be a puppy farmer).

Honestly, finding a good breeder or designer doodles/crossbreeds is incredibly hard - and part of that is exactly what @GelatinousDynamo said. Good breeders, with the healthiest dogs, do not produce mongrels (for lack of a better term) because they are breeding to make the breed they own better. I like to think I am a good example of that - I breed Golden Retrievers. I have a boy at the moment, excellent temperament, health scores, pedigree etc. I could make an absolute fortune if I wanted to, studding him to standard poodle owners to produce Goldendoodles. But I won't (for many reasons, but part of that is because I breed to make my breed better).

You really would be better off trying for a cocker spaniel, show lines, because there are hundreds of breeders in the UK, it'll be easier to check generational health tests and much easier to vet them.

Thanks so much. Appreciate your time!

Health wise I’d go for the less flat faced version as they’re less likely to have breathing issues.

my personal view, having purchased from a kc reg breeder and a family breeding their family dog as a one off experience, both have been great. Anyone with more than one litter a year is doing it for the money and I’d walk away. We have a kc reg cocker and a family bred sprocker. Both lovely but kc reg is the one that had health problems (luck of the draw and nothing that could be predicted). Sprocker is the most loving, calm amazing family pet we could wish for. I’ve been heavily criticised on here for not using a “breeder” but I think with mixed breeds it’s often puppy farms or families having a one off litter with their much loved pet. I know which I prefer.

Ask questions and get a feel for the breeder. Always be prepared to walk away. We didn’t take dc to meet our last puppy in case it felt wrong and dc would have been devastated as off course the puppies would be “cute”. Thankfully my instinct was right and all was good but we were prepared to say no if it didn’t feel right.

In your shoes I would look for a pedigree with a similar personality to a CKCS. I love them, but I wouldn’t have one with their history of health issues - even with health-tested parents, it’s sadly just not a healthy breed any more. You might find a show cocker suits you (definitely not a working one) or failing that, a miniature poodle or a Tibetan terrier, perhaps.

Dodgy WiFi and duplicate post. Now edited.

Thanks everyone. Lots to think about….!

This is my cockalier . She’s the best dog in the world, calm and cuddly at home but full of enthusiastic energy when out. Everyone she meets falls in love with her. Was so easy to train as will do anything to please. She’s nearly seven and has kept her cute puppy look (photo was taken few days ago). Plus touch wood only ever been to vet for yearly jabs. Afraid I can’t recommend breeders as she was the result of her mum (KC) getting out and having a one night stand with the neighbours cocker🤣.