Tricky dog trainer situation; WWYD? (Long!)

[natura]

I moved to a new town last week.

I have a 15-year old largely deaf dog, who is an absolute dreamboat in every way except for separation anxiety.

Since we've just landed in a new place, I thought I'd 'tie' some separation anxiety training into the change of location, so I booked in a local trainer that a few people recommended.

The short version is he was very sweet, but completely useless.

He seems to have a basic programme that he applies to everyone, no matter what the dog or presenting issue is. We spent our 2 hour initial consultation:

• Asking me questions that I'd already answered at length in the intake form (which he hadn't read)
• Playing treat games to teach him to pay attention to me (he's locked on me all the time anyway)
• Taking him for a walk, where I was told he wasn't allowed to smell anything for more than 5 seconds, otherwise he wouldn't respect me, and if you pull a dog away from 'meeting' another dog after 4 seconds then they'll never, ever fight (no idea what that was about)
• Having a disagreement over whether I was going to swap my leash and harness for a slip lead. He said it's vital for my dog to feel secure and happy – I said absolutely not, thank you (my dog has no need for it whatsoever and I'm not going to risk tracheal damage when our current setup works great)

10 minutes before the end of the session, when it was clear he wasn't going to mention the separation anxiety, I said to him "So the issue I wanted help with was his separation anxiety" and he told me to put a scarf on him when I went out that smelled like me.

When I explained to him that my whole house and everything in it smells like me, and I was going to need some guidance on desensitisation, how long to leave him for, how to build up without flooding, how to keep an eye on him when I was outside the front door so I knew when to return... he just kept coming back to the scarf:

"I've never had it not work with a dog. Just go out and do whatever you need to do and he'll be fine."

When I asked what to do if it didn't work, he told me that my dog would pick up on my worry that it wasn't going to work and that would be what caused it not to work.

He says he's going to send me an email with his programme in a report tomorrow, and it's £150 for his consultation and the programme. Then £200 for follow up sessions.

There's no way I'm going to work with this guy further, and I'm pretty annoyed with what happened.

HOWEVER. This is a small town where everyone knows everyone, and I'm new here. Inevitably I'm going to see him around a lot, and he does big group walks with other dog owners who seem to think he's great.

I don't want there to be bad feeling or awkwardness between us, but I'm also not thrilled about paying £150 for something totally useless to me.

Do I just suck it up, pay him, and call it an expensive mistake?

Or do I thank him, tell him not to send me the programme as I won't be using it, and say I'll pay him for his time on the consultation only?

How would you deal with this?

I live in a place where everyone knows everyone. Four of us have got dogs in the past year (puppies and rescues) and each of us have used different trainers.

My dog also has SA, she's an 8yr old rescue.

We've all had different experiences, mostly rubbish tbh. We've all paid up for the initial session and then smiled and waved.

I'm lucky as the second trainer I've tried is excellent but she charges £50 an hour, one to one, and I can't afford it. So my dog still has SA but she fixed other issues.

So, in short, pay the £150 and walk away. You don't need to give a reason.

Don’t pay the £150! If you don’t want to tell him the truth, just say it’s still early days for your dog in their new environment and you want to give them a little more settling time before implementing any kind of training programme.

Absolutely walk away.
Do it politely if your worried about bumping into him a lot, or even just give a vague circumstances have changed style email

The second anyone talks about dogs respecting me i start to switch off.

@DinoLil that's really interesting to hear! A close friend of mine also had a terrible experience with someone who charged £450 for the initial session...

There seem to be so many trainers out there who just apply a blanket approach to any dog that crosses their path – and it makes me so sad for new owners who are genuinely struggling.

I've got enough background in animal training myself to be able to know when someone's full of it – but I can imagine someone brand new to all this could get absolutely taken in, overwhelmed, and in some cases actual damage done.

I hear you. The thing is, the £150 includes our 2 hours yesterday – so I'd need to give clear reason if I wasn't going to pay him for something I did receive (useless though it was)...

@8dateslater me too – the 'respect' conversation is a massive red flag for me – and it feels particularly ridiculous when I have a gentle elderly fella who's totally respectful, loving, and soft as can be. This is hardly some adolescent male Malinois; it's a half-deaf teddy bear😂

Unfortunately, I think you have to pay the £150, as you have had the initial consultation and he will send you the programme. Then don't bother booking any further sessions. (Is it £200 each one or for a course?) I don't think you need to say anything to him.
The dog training world is a minefield. Totally unregulated, so anyone can set themselves up as one. There are four local to me and I wouldn't touch any of them with a barge pole. It's all slip leads, e-collars and spray bottles.
I would get someone who is APDT or PACT registered, but they don't come cheap.
There used to be a really good book on SA. I'll see if I can find it.
I hope you find something or someone that can help you.

Thanks, @SpanielsGalore – I started following the Julie Naismith method years ago, but stopped because it seemed that my boy didn't have long left (every vet we saw said his heart failure would likely take him within a year, two max).

I figured there was no point going through the hoopla if he was on his way out; better to just spend as much time together as possible.

Now, 5 years on, I wish I'd stuck with it 😂

Any recommendations for books or guidance very welcome!

I think there are loads of trainers that get buy on very basic knowledge

We've done lots of training with our dog, hang out in classes, are friends with our trainer etc and I swear half of her job must be so frustrating

Considering how expensive her time is, people try surprisingly little before getting trainers involved.

Half of dog training groups, its me or the dog, dog tv programmes are solved by suggesting a kong 😂

Exactly, @8dateslater. A Kong, or, apparently, cold-weather-wear.

"My elderly dog has separation anxiety."
"Put a scarf on him."

😂😂😂

I think as annoying as it is, pay the £150 as it covers the consultation and I guess the written report which is the programme. You've had the consultation and he could claim he wrote the report straight after the consultation (ie before you told him you didn't want it). If follow-up sessions are £200, then I think a lot of the £150 will be for the two hour session. It's annoying, but you have had his time (however useless) and as a new person in a small community it's probably the easier route.

I think you have little choice but to pay the £150.
I also wouldn't say anything as it could make things difficult given the kind of place you live. I've lived in a small town and I must say, it made me really appreciate the anonymity of a big city.

Having said that, I am not sure what you were expecting a trainer to do given that your dog is 15 and you have done some dog training yourself. A behaviourist would have been a better shout but again I don't think they could have suggested anything much useful at this point.

This isn't the one I was thinking of, but it comes recommended by two friends of mine who are dog trainers/behaviourists.

www.amazon.co.uk/Treating-Separation-Anxiety-Malena-Demartini-Price/dp/1617811432?fbclid=IwY2xjawJkW7ZleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHurNsU4OerT-Zc6DwOBcmbIlIL1o43YUg9YlbNO2OMB72sw5DBNqwc4MGW0t_aem_xiQ-LZHh3bDkhG1wf-_9Gg

I think you may have to write off the £150 but please be honest and say your techniques aren’t what I’m looking for. His problem, not yours

@redboxer321 Small-town life does add a layer of extra thought to everything you do, doesn't it?

Regarding what I was expecting... when I called him to initially ask about his services, he said he specialised in separation anxiety. So I guess I was expecting him to do more than ignore the issue until I pushed it, and then suggest a scarf 🤷‍♀️

Or, if it was more complex a situation than he was able to help me with, to tell me that as soon as he realised that was the case. That would also have been perfectly acceptable.

Thanks @SpanielsGalore - will check it out!

To be blunt isn't it all a bit late for this training? The poor boy is 15 and deaf no wonder he has SA and the move won't have helped his anxiety.
If it were me I'd suck it up for the last few years and let him enjoy them with the person he so clearly depends on.

@neilyoungismyhero As I mentioned in a previous post, I thought that was the case 5 years ago, which is why I didn't train it sooner – and now I've gone 5 years with my freedom massively limited.

I've just moved to a new place completely on my own after a very painful 18 months, and while I'm happy for him to come with me everywhere he's able to, as he always has, I'd like us to get to a point where I can go to a gym class once a week, or attend a dentist appointment, or walk the 3 minutes to the corner shop to get a pint of milk instead of having to put him in the car and drive.

I don't need – or want – to leave him for massive extended periods of time. I love hanging out with him as much as he does me. But I'd like to have the option to do small things for myself from time to time, in a way where we're both relaxed and contented about it.

@natura
If he said he was specialised in separation anxiety, then absolutely fair enough.
He sounds like a typical small town type to be honest, big fish in a little pond kind of thing and the rest of the townsfolk sound somewhat gullible.
I found the people in my previous small town were similar about the vet. They were the best vets ever. Except they weren't. Better than the local competition but that was about it.
Anyhow, hope you find a solution and the next 18 months is better for you than the previous.

Thanks, @redboxer321 - you're exactly right, "big fish in a little pond" is a perfect way of describing it.

He's got two massive Akita / Doberman mixes, and he seems to go about town with them feeling like a bit of a celebrity.

Although we ran into him and his dogs this morning and he let both his dogs approach mine for the first time ever without me or my dog realising (I was looking in a shop window and DDog was sitting beside me).

So poor DDog got a heck of a fright with two massive dogs suddenly behind him, and there the trainer was, counting to 4... Cemented my unimpressed-ness.

Pay the £150 but do not do any more sessions..

Your new neighbours will respect you more from walking away from him than having training with him.

Its sad how many rubbish trainers there are out there. "been establised for 30 years" - been doing it wrong for 30 years!

Do quiz any new trainers before you agree to any training.
Basic questions what do you do if the dog does not do what you want them to do
Do you use slip leads
How do you reinforce the dogs you are training etc

Hope you get someone to help you out with your SA

Unfortunately, as a PP has mentioned, the dog training industry is completely unregulated. I work as a class assistant for an IMDT registered trainer but the amount of clubs locally using outdated understanding and methods is shocking. Talking to a behaviourist friend (an actual accredited behaviourist) she told me that, in all of the clients she has seen, when she has asked if they would like to see proof of her qualifications, she has been told 'we believe you'!

Theoretically, he has spent time with you and, in his mind, he has solved your SA issues so i think you have to pay him at least something.... and be very selective about who you book next. At your dog's age though, I wonder if you are better off employing the services of a dog walker, who does drop ins instead. You could book a couple of drop ins a week so you have the freedom to go places and at least your dog will have company while you are out?

I think you have to pay up as you had the 2 hours initial consultation.

In future, look for a trainer that works their dogS - that could be anything from obedience to detection work. Preferably in more than one discipline.

On a personal note, let your dog have a lovely, peaceful retirement!

Thanks, @Girlwithapple - I have a neighbour who's a dogsitter and he can stay with her when I have advance notice of things and she's available. It's what I've always done in the past.

It's just not everything happens with enough notice to be able to book someone – and I want both he and I to have a little more freedom. It's not fun for him, either, to be constantly vigilant about where I am.

You do need to pay to £150 and why on earth did you leave it till the last 10 mins of a 2 hour session to ask about the thing that was most important? Obviously you’re not going to book any other sessions and you can either tell him why or not - that’s up to you.

@Whatevershallidowithmylife do you come out of the gates speaking to people face to face with that tone?

I told him about the separation anxiety the first time I spoke to him on the phone, in the extensive intake form I completed before the session, at the start of the session when we went back over the things I'd said in my e-mail.

I then asked him about it when I realised that we were so close to the end of the session and still hadn't tackled it – I hadn't been clock-watching during the consultation, and assumed his initial routine was building up to something.

And to be clear: as I said in my OP, the £150 included the consultation that I had AND the downloadable report and programme to follow, which he hasn't yet done or sent me. So if I pay the full amount I'm paying for something I haven't had and don't want to receive, not just his time.

Listening to PPs it sounds like it's smoother not to make a point of saying I don't want the report and programme now – but that was what my question was actually about. HTH.