Don’t want to crate - what can I use?

[AlleyRose]

I have a small dog, she’s 8 and perfect.

when she was a puppy she slept in a crate but started to pant when I put her in it at nighttime so I got rid of it and she was happy as Larry for years.

She’s now really anxious again when I go up to bed - think it’s separation anxiety. She literally just wanders round the kitchen all night and is clearly sitting panting as I can see all the drool marks on the floor!

I don’t want to put her in a crate but feel a more enclosed space would make her feel safer? Any ideas as to what I can use? Maybe some kind of barrier that I can block a corner of the room off for her?

I don’t know what to do, she used to love going to bed and now she looks like her little world has fallen apart when she sees me getting ready for bed :(

Can’t you use a dog playpen for her, https://www.robertdyas.co.uk/pawhut-24-pet-dog-playpen-eight-panel-metal-fence?cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=20236695506&cq_term=&cq_plac=&cq_net=x&cq_plt=gp&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAACf0mw2APN9pMSv36uCWrtitdFuKE&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0bPHl8SZjAMVepdQBh0L7S4FEAQYBiABEgKOhvD_BwE something like this?

Why don't you sleep downstairs for a night and work out whether it is being separate from you that's the problem. If it's separation anxiety it's not going to solve it by putting her in a crate, especially since you say she didn't like it the first time around? Being stuck in a crate or enclosed space isn't going to make her feel safe unless she actually likes being in an enclosed space without you!

I would get her checked at the vets to make sure there’s nothing physical going on before assuming it’s behavioural. I’m not sure what breed she is but I would want to rule out dementia.

The suggestion about sleeping downstairs with her is good, better than mine which was to take her up to bed with you!
She may be starting to get forgetful if she's pacing and panting. Is she too warm / air too dry with it being winter? Absolutely get her checked out for any physical discomfort, if she's got achy limbs she might not be comfy lying down on the bed you've got for her.
Hope you get it sorted.

Thanks for all your replies. She’s already been checked out and has nothing physically wrong with her. Vet doesn’t think dementia as she never does it during the the day, only at night time. She does tend to stick to me like glue and follows me everywhere so vet thinks separation anxiety.

thanks for the suggestion @Springisroundthecorner88484848 that might be just what I was looking for. Nice and big but will stop her wandering round!

@SparrowFeet

if I sleep on the sofa and she’s in the lounge she’ll be totally fine all night. Guaranteed. It’s when she’s in the kitchen (and I can’t sleep in there unfortunately). I can’t leave her in the lounge as occasionally she gets an upset tum and lounge is carpeted while kitchen has wooden floor.

I’ve tried swapping lounge bed for kitchen bed but that makes no difference. She ends up sleeping on the doormat whatever bed she has.

Ive tried giving her calming treats at bedtime but they make zero difference. I just want her to be happy, poor thing.

Can she not sleep upstairs with you? Then she’d wake you if she needed the toilet and she wouldn’t be anxious?

I'm quite surprised that if your dog is displaying severe SA to this point you won't take her up to bed with you.

She sounds horribly distressed and distressed dogs should never be crated or shoved in a playpen give the dangers. I've known dogs dislocate their jaws between the bars of the crate and break a leg trying to escape a playpen - people laugh or watch youtube videos and say, 'oh my dogs so unhappy she tried to escape and climbed up the side of her play pen, isn't she funny.' It's not so funny when you ten week old pup has to have £7K worth of surgery. Your girl could do a serious injury to herself if she is that distressed. And, besides, 'confining her' isn't going to stop her panting and being distressed - it could even make it worse.

If you can't take her up to bed with you, you need to find a solution that isn't a risk to her as you certainly can't continue like this. I dislike anti-anxiety meds as I often think it makes people lazy and never actually work to try and help the dog, but in this case I think it's probably the only solution if you can't or won't have her upstairs.

Dementia in dogs can begin with feeling anxious at certain times of day. My 13 year old lurcher has dementia which began last year with restlessness during evening. Have you done the dementia score questionnaire on line? 8 is not too young. Please don't confine her, it will make her anxiety worse.

You can get pens with a plastic floor or a crate could it go by your bed? If it’s separation anxiety then the only solution is to have the dog by you. Won’t she wake you if she needs the toilet?

I was going to say the same re. dementia - it often “starts” at night.

My 13 year old dog recently started barking when we first went up at night. He sounded confused and a bit distressed, it’s completely out of character and only happens then.

Yeah, he sleeps upstairs with me now 😂

Our dog slept happily in a crate until she was six. Then she didn't. We tried everything to help her settle - sleeping in the kitchen, on the sofa, in the spare room etc etc.
We've ended up with her sleeping on (in...) our bed every night for the last 3 years, and even went on to buy a Superking size to accommodate her. We felt life is too short. It depends on the breed and your own inclinations though!

@Freysimo

its so hard as I’m getting conflicting info! The vet said dogs feel safer in a confined space and to try a crate but I couldn’t lock her up all night, I’d feel cruel.

she’s a border terrier so should be with me for another 6-8 years all being well. I just want to her to be settled at night. She’s completely fine during the day and she’s fine when she sleeps at my dad’s house. Which makes me think it’s not dementia. I’m going to do some reading up on that now and see how many traits she has. Vet said not but he didn’t do anything to test except for looking at her.

I don't actually think there's a test as such for doggie dementia. My vet suggested the questionnaire. Border terriers are pretty healthy dogs. It's odd that the separation anxiety has come on out of the blue though.

It’s so odd. She used to love her crate to the point that the only way I could get her out in a morning was to knock on the door and pretend someone was here 😂 Now she just doesn’t seem to settle at all. That happened when she was about 6 too.
Vet says he doesn’t think it’s dementia as not enough things ‘fit’ and she’s still quite young (she’s not actually 8 until next month).
He thinks if she was more enclosed it would make her unable to pace around and would more likely settle. I just don’t know.
I developed an allergy to her three or four years ago (thank you menopause) so can’t really have her in my (very small) bedroom with me.

In fairness, I never said it was severe and I never said she was ‘horribly distressed’. I said she paces about at bedtime and I know she pants sometimes because I see little drops of drool on the wooden floor in the morning.
She obviously goes to sleep eventually as her bed is always warm when I come down in the morning.
My post title states I don’t want to put her in a crate and I’ve never ‘shoved her’ anywhere since I got her.

Heavy panting and pacing is a sign of a highly distressed dog.

Whether or not you agree with my phrasing, I've offered helpful advice.

She’s not heavily panting. There’s maybe half a dozen drops of doggy drool on the floor that I can see when I go down in the morning. So I know she does pant, but not all night. I think she does it when I go to bed before she settles down.
i hear her get off her bed as soon as I close the door so I know she walks around for a while but it’s definitely not all night as her bed is always warm when I come downstairs.
I just don’t think she likes it when I go to bed :(

What about something like this? It would give that cozy enclosed den experience that is so reassuring to an anxious dog, without being at all crate-like so it wouldn’t remind her of her crate if you think she still wouldn’t like that.

https://funnyfuzzy.co.uk/products/warm-flannel-detachable-semi-enclosed-large-dog-tent-bed?sku=18061649157821174949263445&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopline-feed&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAABSrJB5MRZJqr5bCpqtE0btwmYH8f&gclid=CjwKCAjwnPS-BhBxEiwAZjMF0uz1Z6EvjYIO0-86o1noUg3-4Flnrl93rv5jqgAh7l5RGEPrx2rE3xoCIjIQAvD_BwE

Personally I don’t like the idea of the playpen at all. It would be restrictive but with none of the positive aspects and cosiness that a space with a covered roof has for a dog.

What happens when you leave her alone during the day? Maybe worth putting an indoor camera on where you leave her and see how she behaves?

Camera is a good idea! She’s not really left alone much, just the odd hour here and there and she never seems bothered when I leave the house but I think I will set up a camera and see how she behaves, thank you ☺️

That looks lovely thank you!

If she is not left much during the day, maybe step that up, so being left isn't such a big deal. Even 10-15 mins every day is better than you always being there. If it's not distressing for her, I'd have thought this would be helpful.

Our dog sleeps in a crate with the door removed, but a blanket over the front like a curtain door. She can come and go as she pleases as she doesn’t like being locked in to a crate, but actually our doggy cam says she gets in at midnight and doesn’t get back out until we go down in the morning.