Will she ever go back?

[Hunkermedown]

How smug I was; puppy was ok in her crate after a week or so and was sleeping through. Hit 18 weeks and will not settle in the crate at bedtime...although she goes to it and looks like she is ready for bed after a few minutes the barking starts.

DH and I have tried going back down and see if needs the toilet - all done quietly with minimal interaction and straight back to bed but it's not working. On some nights we have been up and down til 3 am.

People have told me to ignore the barking. Firstly I don't like doing that and secondly we have neighbours. We checked in with them and they can hear it, so it's not an option. As of next week DH is having surgery so I will be dealing with more home and puppy stuff alone.

Last few nights we have slept on the sofa taking it in turns. The puppy sleeps just fine / no need to toilet in the night and she is settled.

Do we persevere with the crate - puppy has lost some teeth so defo teething. We tried crate with open door within play pen but despite her tiny legs she managed to jump onto the crate to get out of the pen.

Starting to wonder what the crate is for? Is it best to just let her come up to the bedroom so we can all get some sleep in our own beds. She is very small and not destructive.

I have gone back on every other rule I had before this puppy as she is so adorable. However, will it create any longer term problems - will she ever be happy sleeping downstairs or by herself? Please help a tired over thinker.

Honestly just have her in the bedroom with you both. She's a tiny wee thing and doesn't want to be alone which is quite understandable.

Have her in your room if you're happy to be.

I'd be very worried if she's trying to escape the play pen/crate tbh. I know of someone who's dog dislocated her jaw trying to escape, and another who broke its leg. Dogs and playpens/crates are all well and good if the animal is happy - not so good if it's not. Puppies don't know their limits and are determined little buggers - they can, and do, cause serious injuries to themselves in their attempts to escape.

Ultimately, your dog my never be happy sleeping alone. On the other hand, she might be going through a phase.

What breed is she? Some dog breeds are just a lot clingier than others.

Mine goes in with a kong with kibble and peanut butter, comes in from his wee and takes himself to his crate, he's nearly 2. A trainer said to me don't open it when he barks, come down bang the crate and go away. So barking in the crate means a big bang he doesn't like. He's been great in the mornings too now. Only did it a couple of times.

That's absolutely awful advice from your trainer - negative reinforcement is not training, it's scaring your dog into submission.

You should be careful caving into dogs barking for things, like attention, but banging a crate to scare them into submission - which is effectively what you have done - is absolutely awful.

I wouldn't be advertising I did that tbh - I'd be pretty ashamed. He's only done it a couple of times and goes in there now because you scared him. You're just damn lucky it worked the way it did and you didn't end up with severe behavioural issues

If you're happy with her in your room, then I would just do that. Ours has slept in our bed since day one - he's never had any accidents and has always slept through the night apart from waking us up for a wee. He's seven now.

I think she will be upstairs tonight with us. Thank you for the replies but banging the crate sounds like a step too far for me, I think she would be scared.

She is a shihpoo and loves people, being a companion dog it sounds like the best place is where she feels most secure.

Yep - banging the crate is horrendous advice.

I’ve no idea where you found that ‘trainer’ but that’s not training. It’s scaring a dog into submission and a really horrible thing to do to an animal,

Did that not feel wrong to you when you did it?

Please don’t pass on such terrible ‘advice’ to people.

So barking in the crate means a big bang he doesn't like.

Only if you are extraordinarily 'lucky'.

He could more easily associate your appearance or closeness to the crate with a big bang he doesn't like.

In your example it is far more likely he links the bang with your appearance because the two will be closer in time. He is likely to stop barking when he hears you nearby or initially sees you, then you get closer, then the big bang happens. So what immediately precedes the big bang? You being next to the crate.

Quite apart from the ethical considerations with using punishments, the big fail they have is that you have no way at all of really being sure what the dog links the punishment to.

Ours sleeps like a log in her bedroom crate. It’s full of blankets and is snuggly and she puts herself to bed in it and doesn’t come out again until invited to in the morning. We don’t even shut the door now. She obviously feels safe in there and that’s her little nighttime cosy place.

I would just bring the crate up to your bedroom. She's learnt that barking brings you downstairs so keeps it up as long as she can. If you don't want her in your bed (I wouldn't because remember she's going to get a lot bigger) then i would bring the crate up and let her sleep there knowing that you're close by.

Our puppy slept in crate as he chewed furniture and couldn’t be left out for his own good. He slept really well at first, but like your puppy after a while he would go in happily, sleep, but wake up barking maybe an hour or two later. We couldn’t keep up with the broken nights, so let him sleep with the crate door open. Mostly he slept on the floor next to the crate, he would come upstairs and stay on the floor for a while, but generally had the whole of the house to sleep where he wanted. He was still happy going in crate during the day when left alone.

I bought a crate with our Whippet, slept alongside her on the sofa .. for about 7 days
But one night I fell asleep at 11 pm with her on my bed, and woke at 6 am and she had been peaceful all night..
No crying.. They just want to be with you.

I haven't used the crate since!

@Hunkermedown The person my Whippet came from used crates a lot as she shows and does lure coursing- her Whippets see their crates as safe places to settle-{Covered with thick blankets for den like privacy} They sleep in them at night {with the doors open}.
Crates can definitely be good if uses sensibly - but people use them like jails, and this is where the dog starts to detest the crate {unsurprisingly}.

@ACynicalDad Not sure why you reacted with a laughing emoji to my post disagreeing with banging on the crate to shut a puppy up.

If that's your level of communication, I won’t even begin to try and explain to you the theory of crate training to provide a safe place where they can feel happy and secure.

Pity your poor dog.

And it sounds like you were robbed by a ‘trainer’ who doesn’t know his arse from his elbow.

Completely agree...

A crate should be a happy and positive and a SAFE place.

A friend had to fly a dog to New Zealand for Emigration- She bought a Flight Crate {wooden} months beforehand, and got the dog used to seeing it as a safe place- he only associated it with good things.

He coped with the flight well, {Quarantine at NZ less so, as his blankets and crate was destroyed}

Banging on a dog's crate when the dog is crying or barking is pointless...It would be like someone banging on a bedroom door or window..invasive and threatening.

Thank goodness you are not going to bang on the crate.
What a negative, damaging thing to do- Dog's hearing is so acute, and crates make a hell of a rattle when moved {I haven't banged one}.

Sadly any idiot can set themselves up as a ''Dog trainer'' and dogs end up paying the ultimate price of foolish methods.

If your dog isn't destructive, {doesn't chew electric flex or computer charging cables} then she's probably fine outside a crate.

@oakleaffy is that your whippet? Very sweet. Thank you all for the replies which were sensible. I defo won't be banging a crate anytime soon.

take her upstairs and sleep

mine's a Shitzu/Maltese mix and esp Shihtzu and very social dogs and want to be near their "pack". ours sleeps on my feet

The process of crate training of my golden retriever abruptly finished after 4 nights, there was distress and broken sleep - on the 4th night, I must have been so out of it after three nights of barely any sleep that I didn't put her back in the crate after taking her out to the garden for a wee. I somehow woke up in the morning with a golden puppy on my head and that was it:) She slept in the bedroom with us since, she's now almost three and likes to start on the bed and then usually gets to hot and spends the rest of the night on the floor. Oh, and since she started sleeping with us, she slept pretty much through the night even as a puppy.

I had to log back into Mumsnet and my user name has changed! Anyway, we had the first night last night of taking puppy up to bed. She slept all night, I think I slept a bit lighter as I was conscious of her being there. But she was quite good at finding a gap for herself! It was a peaceful night and both DH and I feel rested today.

My DS who wanted the dog (and incidentally has slept through all the noise and not helped out) said we were making a mistake letting her in the bedroom but it’s been a good decision. Good quality sleep is so vital!

This is fucking horrible, would you like someone screaming in your face to make you be quiet if you were upset?

Yes this, she Is lonely and frightened and teaching you that barking means you come bring her In beside you are at least nearer maybe in the upstairs hall.