I am really struggling with our puppy

[NCforpuppyhelp]

Help please!

We have three dogs - two small ones who have no issues and one large crossbreed puppy who is 7 months old now.

Puppy is housetrained and knows lots of commands e.g. sit but has so much energy he can only do a command for a second before going back into crazy mode. I WFH mostly and only go in when DH is home so the dogs are rarely left alone. Puppy needs strict supervision at all times as he will swallow whole anything he can fit into his mouth. He runs around and knocks both children and adults over all day. He has a crate for his safety at night but of course he can't be in that too often, although the crate is the only time he and we are safe. He is not nasty and has never bitten or growled, but will bulldoze anyone or thing in front of him as he is very big and strong and oblivious. He does not at any point lay down for a cuddle etc. He absolutely flattens the other dogs. The dogs are walked but the smaller ones can't manage the same speed or walk length as the puppy who wants to run fast which causes issues. I do take the puppy for a long run of a few miles 2-3 times per week but I am too exhausted to manage more often and it doesn't seem to make a difference as he has just as much energy after. Daily life is becoming so hard as he's harder to supervise than a toddler and I'm struggling to work when he needs so much supervision. I expect to have to dedicate time to a puppy but its been continual for five months and training isn't improving things.

There was a recent incident which has damaged my bond with him. I know he didn't mean it and it was instinctual but despite normally being closely supervised in the garden which in itself is exhausting, he managed to break into the rabbit run (which is fox proof and I am very surprised he got in) and he mauled one of the rabbits. Despite reinforcing the run and digging it down, he now breaks into the rabbit run daily even while supervised as he just refuses to come to call when trying to break into the run. Its an expensive run but where the damage each day is repaired its getting progressively weaker and I don't want to buy a new run as he will immediately destroy it. I tried putting a second cheap run around the first to protect it but he destroyed it in minutes. I can't keep him on the lead in the garden as he likes to run up and down the full length of our very large garden constantly and I think restricting his movement would just make his overexcitement worse. We can't have visitors anymore as he cant be left unattended while seeing a visitor and he can't be let out while visitors are here as he will hurt them with his jumping/continual running into people.

DH suggested speaking to the breeder about taking the puppy back. I've never rehomed a pet and I feel very ashamed to even consider it. I don't want the puppy to feel unloved or rejected. I don't know what to do but I've been reading about cross breeds sometimes getting bad traits from each breed and never calming down. For months I've coped by focussing on how this is short term and he will calm down, but this level of energy is something I've never experienced in a dog and I'm really worried its going to be forever.

What mix of breeds is he? Was there a reason you got a large breed dog when you are used to smaller?
Is it a breed with a lot of prey drive? There are a lot of dogs that are going to be very motivated to go after rabbits. No way would any small furries be safe anywhere near my dog. I would not put him in that situation.
I should think this behaviour will probably go a quite a lot longer until he's 18 months or 2 years. If you think you don't realistically have the time and energy and perseverance to put into ongoing training perhaps it is best to ask the breeder to take back and rehome the sooner the better.

Is he a labradoodle? Some of them are absolutely bonkers. They do calm down, but not until about 2. Your dog is a teenager and if you keep him you need to keep up the training and expect about a year before the adult him starts to emerge. I got given one at 18 months who was rehomed to us as she was mad as a box of frogs. By 3 she was the most loyal dog.

What mix is he? Golden-doodle by any chance? You're describing behaviour that is not uncommon in both standard Poodles and Golden Retrievers/Labs - and, as you say, buying pedigree crosses does often result in dogs with undesirable temperaments and characteristics.

But, if I am honest, he sounds under-exercised, under-stimulated and bored out of his mind. You're not meeting his needs. My Golden's all need about an hour a day at 7 months old (spread across 2-3 walks) which is about 4ish miles. So '2-3' miles a few times a week, and much shorter walks between, is probably a big cause of his behaviour. Puppies need good, frequent, mental and physical stimulation to grow into well-mannered dogs.

If you can't give him what he needs in terms of mental and physical stimulation, then you should return him to the breeder because this will not get better - at seven months old, as a large breed, he's not even really hit puberty yet.

He is a springador. We were supposed to get a puppy same breed as our other two, as one is very old and slowing down and I didn't want the other to be an only dog as they love each others company, or go through the puppy stage while grieving. We ended up with this pup as original puppy had some major health issues identified before we were able to collect her (not a breed prone to health issues) so the breeder kept the puppy. DH's work colleague/friend is also a breeder and suggested this pup would be great for us.

I've checked on google maps and the daily walk route is a 2.6 mile loop which is twice per day but feels shorter, the other dogs struggle with longer. I can't manage a longer run or more often, I've got an issue with my hip developing the more I run but I think its from one of the puppy related injuries as he runs into me quite often and knocks me over. He is trained otherwise in terms of he doesn't jump up on cupboards and can do lots of commands but to keep him engaged you have to go rapidly between commands like sit-lay-roll-sit-stand-sit etc. I go through the tricks very often all day as its his favourite and we learn new ones too.

I tried taking him to doggy daycare where the others used to go but he was very boisterous and ran around flat out knocking over people and dogs so they asked to not bring him back until he has calmed down a bit. I just need a bit of a break. This is way harder than having babies.

Is it a lab cross? Teenage labs are often arseholes but they do tend to calm down and become really lovely dogs. Does he gets lots of chance to sniff when he is out - it will tire his brain out more than running. I would make him work for all his food, use kongs, lick mats, hide treats under toilet roll tubes, get some of the games where they've got to work out how to get the treat - anything to tire his brain out. Vary your walks so he has new smells and new things to explore, meet up with someone who has an equally big dog and let them chase each other while you walk.

I'm afraid he doesn't sound like the right breed for you OP. The rabbits and your other dogs aren't safe. I would agree with your husband, talk to the breeders and see if they will take him back.

In all honesty, it sounds like you're not meeting his needs and so he's looking for his own entertainment by charging around the garden and getting in with your rabbits.

I would firstly make sure you manage his environment - if that means he doesn't go in the garden off the lead and unsupervised for a few months, then so be it, quite frankly. He's too young and impulsive to be trusted so you need to take over and manage that for him.

He also needs plenty of exercise and stimulation - young, high energy dogs need to be walked 2-3 times a day. Not for hours on end, but they do need to get out, sniff, socialise and burn up some of their energy. You can't expect him to cope on the same amount of exercise and stimulation as two smaller, older dogs. It's simply not fair.

So, yes, if you can't give him what he needs (and that could involve paying for a dog walker or daycare if you need a break) then it would be best to re-home him. He's young and his behaviour is well within the realms of normal - he just needs more than what you're currently providing.

Sounds like you've got the madness of a springer with the heft of a lab.

Have you tried a behaviourist?

Is he over tired perhaps, never learned to settle?

I think I'd be rehoming as for whatever reason your lifestyle/environment don't suit him. And he doesn't suit your other pets.

I've checked on google maps and the daily walk route is a 2.6 mile loop which is twice per day but feels shorter, the other dogs struggle with longer.

You need to vary your walks - the same loop twice a day must be boring as hell for him, to be brutally honest. He needs variety - new places, new smells, new dogs, new people. And if the other dogs struggle with more, then you need to split the walks between you and take him out more than the others - you can't expect a young springador to cope with the same levels of exercise as two older, calmer dogs.

Labs can be a big thuggish, especially as puppies and they can be quite physical.
Chuck a hyper breed like a Springer in there as well and its unsurprising hes's challenging, that the issue with crosses. You could have got a really clever couch potato and you got the opposite!
If you want to put lots of time and effort in the dog is probably trainable but it might not be for you

Oh goodness what a cross! Springers are crazy and labs are large and very silly as teens! Are they working lines as well? I think you're mad to have got a cross like that tbh! He certainly doesn't sound like a good fit for your other two dogs in any way, shape or form unfortnately.

He will calm down but you have a big dog with high needs there. I would look at doing some scent work, look into weighted vests to see if they would be appropriate. Play hide and seek if you have nearby woods, take him swimming....lots of variety and lots of fun.

There is a calmness protocol- I can’t remember what it’s called- but it’s based on some dogs never actually wearing out and just getting overstimulated. I needed it with my kids- they had to be taught how to settle as otherwise they were hyper all day and night.

Given he’s walking 6 miles a day and getting three runs a week, as well as doing commands, that may be what you need to think about.

There’s a positive behaviour Facebook group that’s helpful, have a look there. Get a positive trainer in.

Teach him how to be calm rather than endlessly trying to wear him out.

Stop allowing access to the back garden. It isn’t helping. Reward calmness. Be calm, not excitable, yourself. Try playing classical music…
Put him in his crate for naps. He’s young, he needs them.

You are at the height of problems now. It will take a while to work through.

It's normal behaviour for his age and breed but it looks as though he doesn't suit your lifestyle at all and isn't a good for with your other pets.

It will be probably another year of this before he settles down and he'll need a lot of input and training. It really depends if you are up for that.

Labs are born half trained, and springers die half trained!

We have a lurcherdor, who was a nightmare until she hit a year old. For the first year we had to do 3 1 hour walks a day. Each walk had to be different and prioritise a different thing if we were to tire her out. My partner would run with her in the morning. I would do an off the lead/sniffing focused walk in the afternoon, and then a park walk with lots of dogs/balls in the evening. Whenever she was home between these times she would very briefly nap, and then just stand and wait for the next walk. We had to be very boundaried and consistent with our behaviour and training too. I probably wouldn't ever get a puppy again, it was a full time job for that first year.

The good news is she's now almost 9, and a very well behaved and pleasurable dog to own. When she hit a year the puppy hecticness died down a little, but I really think the consistency of our boundaries and training did her wonders. But dogs are hard to train if they have energy. So focusing on getting their head space focused should be your priority. Have you considered a local dog walker or trainer who could do a bigger walk/training lesson a couple times a week? A friend did this for her labradoodle and saw great results.

Good luck, puppies are hard.

I can't comment on the lab half but I have lots of experience with springers.

An onlead walk or run, regardless of length, is useless to a springer. You won't tire them out, even if you march them on a lead for 10 miles, or if you jog with them. And they're not the type, unless elderly, for the 'slow sniffy' walks some talk of. They are often chomping at the bit to just cover distance when on lead, with next to zero enrichment. And distance won't tire them.

A Springer, or springer cross, needs off lead walks. So they can run, sniff, jump, swim, follow a trail through woods with their nose. It doesn't sound as if your walks are offlead and imo it's this lack of enrichment likely to be your main problem.

We walk our springer for an hour a day most days, that's it. All the 'you need two two hour walks a day for an active breed' I read about is BS imo. It's the quality of the walk that matters, not necessarily distance or length.

When we go, ddog spends an hour off lead climbing steep banks, running, swimming, following trails. I walk 2 miles, she probably does 10. And after that one hour she will sleep an entire afternoon, she's exhausted.

If I walked her on lead for an hour...or two ...she'd be as active when we got back as before we left.

Hi @NCforpuppyhelp - I have a Cockerdor and I completely understand your pain! I've never had a dog before and it was an absolutely insane choice of breeds for me, as a single person with a full-time job. But it works, just about, and I adore him. He is ten months old, so a bit ahead of yours.

A few questions just so I know I'm giving you the right sort of advice: how much does yours weigh now, and do you have a sense of how much growing he has to do? Is he from working or show lines? You mention children and adults - do you have kids at home, how old are they, and are they separated or do they interact with the puppy a lot? Have you gone to puppy classes, or involved a trainer yet?

My boy is very high energy with a strong prey drive as he's come into adolescence. I wasn't fully prepared for this and am having to change the way I work with him; if I had my time again I would have done much more close work and engagement work from a much younger age, and looked at gun dog training from when he was tiny. Instead I taught him a really good recall and relied on that when I wasn't fully paying attention, and I'm having to make up for it now.

Your boy will likely need a good one-two hours out of the house each day, with most of that somewhere he can run off lead or on a long-line. You don't have to go on forced marches with him, knackering yourself and the other two dogs - my boy gets half his daily exercise at an enclosed dog park where he can play with friends. If you could take him to a safe dog field even once or twice a week you can let him run like a loony, and the other two can potter about.

Don't play too many ball games with him - get him to sniff and mooch if you can. Scattering treatos (e.g. chopped up dog paté) in long grass is a good one. Do training when you're out on your longer walks with him - work on loose-lead walking, sits and stays etc.

My boy needs enforced naps and in adolescence they can struggle with this. Sometimes I have to take him to the bed and work there as that's the only way he can sleep.

Really good resources are the FB Dog Training and Advice page, and also the Ladies Working Gundog Group if you're able to pay a monthly fee.

Also join us on the adolescent thread, and OP, do private message me if you want to chat more - I know exactly what you're going through with that breed!!

We adopted a large male dog at around 9 months and from 12 to at least 18 months I thoroughly regretted it and wanted give him up and it was only shame and bloody mindedness that stopped me.

He also did not settle, chewed up our house, dug up the garden, and was a nightmare to walk running off and jumping/ pulling biting. He had to stay on a long line until at least age 2 and he ate through a number of those.

We hired a dog walker to walk him in the middle of the day as well as the 2 walks we were already giving him. I took him to weekly training classes and paid for 1:1 lessons too. He was calmer and more trainable after he was neutered at 18 months and he's gradually calmed down since then. He stopped all the chewing and is mainly a pleasure to walk now and has better recall but he still has his issues and is not safe with cats at all.

I have a working springer and I think it sounds like your dog is maybe over stimulated and needs teaching to settle at home, but will always be lively outside.

Only from my experience, our springer is super chilled and relaxed at home, but outside he probably appears crazy and hyper to others, however he is just excited to be out sniffing. Have you considered
taking him for pet gundog classes? It teaches them to be calm outside, engagement with you, waiting etc but rewards them with what they really like which is finding things, fetching etc. we spend time on walks playing 'find it' with his ball, he waits for us to hide and then goes searching- tail proper wagging. This sort of mental stimulation really tires him out so at home he is very relaxed. I believe labradors are similar and both types are gundogs bred to find things (dead peasants etc) and bring back to you so you need to tap into those instincts and tire him out.
It definitely gets easier as they get older and if you persevere it's so rewarding. Unfortunately 7 months is the nightmare teenager age

He needs an outlet, and dedicated time each day for a mix of that and training.

Tennis balls could well be your friend. Cover his eyes (a friend had a springerdor and used to get him to face her, then hold his head between her knees...) and chuck them into cover (long grass, brambles). Send him in to find them and bring them to you. Start it off simply, within a few feet of you - he should pick up the game quickly enough. You could even start in the house, if you could trust him not break things (including you!) in his enthusiasm.

Work up to more structured retrieving - maybe get a gundog dummy and watch a few videos.

While you're developing this, do a little bit of training every day - 10-30 minutes should get you a long way quite fast. Again, look for videos on sit, stay, stop, recall and heelwork. It also sounds as if he needs work on basic manners - not jumping up, staying on his bed etc etc. Reward him with praise/ food/ play if he gets it right. remove him from the situation if he's a prat - he will learn. Start with the easy stuff in less-distracting environments: gradually build up distraction, duration, distance and difficulty.

Once you can trust him to sit while you pop round behind some brambles and hide some dummies or tennis balls for him to find, you can really ramp up the fun and games. Play recall games, and self control games where he has to sit and wait before being sent for a treat he's seen, or that you know if there.

IME (we're on to our third and fourth working-line dogs), training and games wears them out more than just free running. Building him up to a 5 or 10 minute stay in the garden is going to knacker his little brain.

With the rabbits, either move them out of his way (I'm assuming you can't, or you would have done) or make it very clear to him that bothering them is an absolute NO. If he goes near them, he is reprimanded and removed.

If you genuinely haven't the time and mental energy to spend on him, it would be best to rehome him, sooner rather than later. You have a lot of dog there, who could be wonderful in the right home. Don't beat yourself up if that home isn't yours: by getting him into the right home, you are doing the best thing for him.

ETA: I blithely assumed he was working line from the behaviour. Also I second @Bupster who recommends the Ladies Working Dog Group - it's very friendly and helpful, and their basic guide to sit-stay let me finally show my younger dog (batshit, nervy and not very bright) what she needed to do (I'd taught the older dog, no issues).

This! Our lab began to settle at one, but was a nightmare as a pup. We learnt that he got over tired and so we put him in crate for enforced naps during the day.

Definitely second the need for off lead. Mine (different but allied breed) would go nuts with only on lead walks no matter how sniffy.

Only from my experience, our springer is super chilled and relaxed at home, but outside he probably appears crazy and hyper to others, however he is just excited to be out sniffing

Exactly the same.

I've lost count of the people who look at ddog on walks, when she's manically searching through piles of leaves with her nose down or sprinting to the top of sheer banks and they go 'Oh my, I don't know how you do it 😱'.

I'm just strolling at a leisurely pace through the woods, it's minimal effort on my part and she more or less walks herself 😂

Also, don't worry about using the crate during the day, an enforced hour or so to relax will help- just make sure you reward for being in there, give a chew or some treats thrown in occasionally. He will soon learn that being still and lying down is rewarding for him so will choose to do it if his own accord.

I’ll be honest, it doesn’t sound like the dog is a good fit for you. A couple of lead walks per day isn’t going to touch the sides for a 7 month old Labrador/springer cross, and off lead only 2-3 times a week definitely isn’t acceptable. This sort of dog needs off lead exercise daily, probably twice daily at that age. I do at least two walks with my dogs until they are sensible adults, then cut it down to once per day which most adult dogs are satisfied with. Depending on the dog this might be when they 2-3 years old. Otherwise they simply have too much pent up energy and this manifests in the behaviours you’ve been seeing; bullying your other dogs, destruction, and generally being a pain in the arse.

I would have a good long think about whether you are able to increase what you do with the dog to meet its needs, or consider rehoming. Luckily a young dog of that cross shouldn’t be hard to rehome.

They are 2 breeds that I’m not quite sure should be bred together, but here we are.
They are both working dogs so unlikely to ever be a ‘happy to plod around’ dog.
Long walks aren’t always the best way to tire a dog out. They need to use their brain. Scent work, so feed his dinner on a snuffle mat, or throw some in the garden where he can search for it to eat.
He definitely needs some training, I’d look for a positive reinforcement gun dog trainer. They will show you the basics and also give you ideas on what you can do at home to work his clever mind.
20 mins scent games can be as tiring as an hour walk. And this breed, you aren’t going to tire him out, you’re just going to make him fitter.
I have 2 working breeds, one is old now, but the younger one does a variety of off lead walks, scent games, training. I will never make him tired. He’d run all day with me, but if he has to use his brain, then he’s mentally tired

Get a kong for times you want him to relax. And also a lick mat. He needs to be taught to switch off. Dogs aren’t born with a natural ability to do this.

if you can’t commit to the training he will need (& that isn’t a criticism) then I’d consider giving him back to the breeder so they can find a more suitable home. It probably doesn’t feel like a nice option, but might in this instance, be better for the dog in the long run