Choosing a dog - where to start?

[coverp]

DH and I are starting to think about choosing a dog to join the family. Either this summer or next summer depending on how our research goes. We have 3 children who are currently 6, 4 and 1. My family owned dogs throughout my childhood and 20s but DH has never had one.

We have had a terrible experience of a Romanian rescue in the family, which makes me very nervous to consider (certainly an overseas) rescue. I suspect most rescues would not rehome to a house with such small children in either?

DH would love a Lab or a Retriever, but I think they are too big for me to happily handle myself (I WFH so would be doing a lot of the daytime load) and I'd also prefer a dog that doesn't shed quite so much. We had a range of different dogs growing up, including a lab, a beagle, a (crazy) spaniel and several different types of terrier.

Can anyone give advice to help us get started:
Are there rescues that would consider us, and if so, what do we need to know about going this route?
How do you find reputable breeders if we decide a puppy is better for us?
Any tips on agreeing a suitable breed or is it best to stay open minded at this stage and focus on finding the best place to adopt/buy from?
Are the kids too young this summer? Better to wait until youngest is 2.5?

Thanks for any insight!

I'd wait until the dc are older. We got a puppy when dc was 5, and to me that was young enough. We have 1 dc but the puppy days were hard and to do it right needed a lot of time and training. I work term time so we did mange to time it and got puppy at the start of July so we had nearly 8 weeks with them to do training and increase time being alone at home. It's good you wfh and puppies shouldn't be left for extended periods of time.

Unfortunately we chose against rescue first because of young children and second 2 friends both had bad experiences. Anyway hubby and I had dogs all our life staffies but we knew we didn't want another staffies once our babies were born so we got a lab based on several members of our family have them and they were great. Never looked back our now 4 year old x 3 toddlers adore her, she adores them. We had a great last summer, them running about with her. She's lovely and quiet when at home, did some training with her and she's brilliant at emptying the washing machine, taking dirty clothes downstairs, she even sits in front of cupboards she knows the little ones shouldn't go in until they move elsewhere etc. its quite funny 🤣..I don't notice much hair casting off her but then she's brushed regularly. Retrievers cast a lot I know my grandparents last dog was one and way way to much hair for me lol

Everyone has a different definition of what makes a good breeder and from previous experience on this forum, these threads have a tendency to get quite unpleasant.

Suffice to say I know plenty of people who timed their puppies to an extent and none have had any problems.

Different people hold breeders to different standards. I suspect mine are 'lower' for some aspects than some people active on thus board and 'higher' for other aspects.

For example, I'd be wary of a COI much above 5%.l've only ever had one dog with COI of over 5% - about 5.5% - and the dog herself turned out to be quite nervy with some digestive issues, and a litter sibling suffered from serious allergies. I can't prove that these issues had anything at all to do with a higher COI, but they made me even more cautious than I was already. I'm very aware that even a full panel of the health tests recommended for a breed can't pick up every genetic anomaly. I also spent far too long reading up on what used to be called Vizsla myositis and looking at the obviously inbred pedigrees of many of the affected dogs.

On the other hand, I don't have an issue with someone breeding a cocker spaniel bitch untested for PRA, so long as the sire is tested clear: almost all testable forms of PRA, including the one usually found in cockers, require the dog to inherit two copies of the affected gene, one from each parent. So even if the dam is a carrier, the puppies won't be affected.

You have to decide what matters to you and act accordingly. If breeders tried to stick to all the ideals of 'good breeding', we wouldn't see many puppies.

@ZimbleFox

The point is that anyone who actually has to advertise their litters probably isn't someone that you'd want to use - good breeders have wait lists a year+ long. So anyone on those websites with readily available pups - particularly entire litters - you should be asking yourself why they bred when they didn't have buyers already.

No one should be breeding dogs without buyers lined up - that's how we, as a nation, have gotten into the awful position of having so many dogs in rescue centres (that and puppy farmers). Responsible breeders don't breed unless they have buyers lined up.

Don’t be tempted to get a poodle cross. Many of them have behaviour problems, you don’t know what you are actually getting and many come from puppy farms.

We had a golden retriever and they are lovely dogs. They come with their drawbacks though. They have a tendency to eat rubbish and steal food. They love water, the muddier the better. Finally, their coat sheds a lot.

Our current dog is a miniature poodle. I never thought I would have a poodle, based really on their stupid haircuts. It turns out that you can have an amazing dog with a sensible cut.

Our poodle has been the easiest dog ever. She was very quickly housetrained and she didn’t chew anything, other than her own toys.

She’s clever, willing and very loving. She’s excellent with other dogs and has a wonderfully kind nature. I’ve never heard her growl. She hardly ever barks. She doesn’t shed. What more could you ask for?

Did you actually read what I wrote?

The people I mentioned weren't advertising entire litters, they had buyers lined up. There was just a mismatch. Our pup came from a litter of 10, 8 females and 2 males. All but 2 of the girls had homes before they were born, they had people wanting boys who didn't get a pup at all. If you're only breeding once every four years you're not going to maintain a waiting list.

I wonder who you think a first time dog owner should get a dog from when you're stated elsewhere that you won't sell to first time owners?

I did, I agreed with your point. The tone of your response to mine is quite sharp though, and slightly unnecessary.

Tbh, as I said on my AMA, it's not my issue where first time owners buy their dogs - I just care about where my puppies go. My job is to find my puppies the best home possible, not find a buyer a puppy.

There's enough good breeders of my breed that people who are prepared to wait can find a good breeder willing to sell to them - just the sad fact is, most people aren't willing to wait even 6-12 months for a healthy, well-bred, puppy from an ethical breeder.

Fir ne it would need to be a breed tgat doesn't she'd hair ... lab a d retriever would both be out for thus reason.
My favourite is a miniature Schnauzer. Lovely temperament and clever.

Hi @coverp this is such a good move.

We have 4 dogs. Our latest - a rescue - is a giant breed. I was honestly a little worried but she is alert, lovely temperament and I feel safe having her with me.

An absolute angel, guardian dog.

Negatives? She's about 50kg (may get to 70kg at full size) and as strong as heck. She needs plenty of good quality food but we do a roast with rich and veg or mashed root veg and other veg every day for our dogs, so has taken to that really well.

The other end of the scale is a our happy little chappie pug/biscjon/shih tzhu/ jack Russel cross. He's an absolute delight, loves a cuddle, lives to play and is as smart as a button so knows loads of commands/tricks. He'd be no good as a guard dog though, then again maybe he could pick someone to death!!! He's about 15kg and is now 10yo and is still as energetic as he was when he was a puppy - we could not find a rescue that fitted with us as a family 10 yrs ago so had a puppy from a family friends inadvertent breeding of their 2 dogs - a Shichon and Jug.

Good luck with your choice, remember if it's a rescue go visit them plenty of times and get a full history check. The dog will be part of your family, you will be part of their pack. This relationship has to work x

Hi. I think it’s great you’re being responsible about getting a dog and being prepared to wait for the right time. After all, it’s an ( approximately) 15 year commitment
I think everyone is giving good advice about waiting a couple of years though so it’s more manageable for you and your family. In the meantime there are organisations like Borrow My Doggy, where you can walk and/or look after other people’s dogs who live in your area for a short while.

No one should be breeding dogs without buyers lined up - that's how we, as a nation, have gotten into the awful position of having so many dogs in rescue centres (that and puppy farmers).
I have to disagree. The dogs in rescue are predominantly assorted crossbreeds, staffs and similar, lurchers (some of them from coursing busts), randomly-bred terriers, frenchies (ill-considered lock down purchases? Vet bills?), huskies and collies. In other words, ill-thought-out or accidental pairings, or dogs which are lot of dog but often owned by people who can't handle them.

I have owned HPRs for 20 years. They are much more popular than they used to be (esp Vizslas) - with 6.5k registered with the KC each year, plus others pure-bred but unregistered (so c7k total), but you still very rarely see them on the websites of the big rehoming charities (DT has the grand total of two up at the moment). The two GSP rescues currently have a dozen dogs up. No doubt some never make the website, and some are turned away, but if it takes an average of two months to rehome a dog (guess based on a friend's experience in foster), that's perhaps 100 a year, so including Weims and Vizslas and all the rest, perhaps 300 a year.

This means that of somewhere over 7k puppies born a year, about 5% are likely to end up in rescue at some point in their lives. It's 5% too many, but it shows that the vast majority of the puppies from these breeds (which can be challenging to own) go to stable situations, even when breeders don't have long waiting lists (and I have known very good litters be advertised on ChampDogs).

IMHO the problem lies with puppy farmers, and people who slap two dogs together with no thought to make a quick buck. Not with people who search out a compatible health-tested stud because they want to keep a puppy off their bitch, and have a neighbour or friend who'd like one too, and then (having spent ages talking to a friend who has bred several litters previously, given the bitch proper pregnancy care, bought a whelping box, taken time off work etc) advertise the other six puppies, which they sell to people they vet, with a clause in the contract saying that they are to be the first port of call if the puppy needs rehoming.

Totally agree with @EdithStourton.

99% of the dogs in our local rescue centre are lurchers, collies, terriers, bullies or huskies, or some mix of the above. There will, very occasionally, be the odd pure bred dog but they don't hang around for long.

Our own dog was a "leftover" after the breeder decided not to sell him to the person who had initially reserved him. He's fully health-tested and has never given us any bother. We're still in touch with the breeder as well as all the other owners seven years down the line.

The issue isn't people breeding healthy dogs without waiting lists, it's puppy farmers and BYB's churning out all kinds of random crosses with no care to where they end up.

I wanted a lab/retriever but needed something smaller, so I went for a miniature Australian labradoodle, who is wonderful, definitely look at them. But I'd probably wait a couple more years.

Agree with others, I'd wait until your youngest DC is at least 4. In relation to which breed, I would strongly recommend you look at how much exercise a breed needs and make sure you have the time to give this, every day! I am a strong believer that a lot of behavioural (not all but many) issues in dogs are down to them just not getting enough exercise or stimulation. IME the more exercise a dog gets the better behaved and more biddable it is

. Not with people who search out a compatible health-tested stud because they want to keep a puppy off their bitch, and have a neighbour or friend who'd like one too, and then (having spent ages talking to a friend who has bred several litters previously, given the bitch proper pregnancy care, bought a whelping box, taken time off work etc) advertise the other six puppies, which they sell to people they vet, with a clause in the contract saying that they are to be the first port of call if the puppy needs rehoming.

We clearly come at it from very different places because the only breeders I know of - in twenty years - who breed that way (without a wait list) are 100% the ones who do not take puppies back (a contract isn’t not the protection buyers think it is) and don’t run full health tests.

A good breeder doesn’t need to advertise. The only ones I know of who breed and plug a litter on KC or CD are the ones who I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. There’s a reason that of the 27 Goldie litters up atm only one has parents with full health tests (even though I can think of four other young litters from my breeder friends that could be up) that’s because those other litters were spoken for months, or years, before they were even born because the breeder is excellent. In that breeders case, only two pups from that litter have ever been advertised - clearly buyers fell through. Very different to trying to sell 6 or 7 pups.

If you’re buying a readily available pup then 99% of the time you’re buying the wrong pup.

We clearly come at it from very different places because the only breeders I know of - in twenty years - who breed that way (without a wait list) are 100% the ones who do not take puppies back
I have known 3 breeders take puppies back:
Ocassional breeders of random terriers: an owner became terminally ill and the breeders took the young dog back and removed him after a few months
A couple who bred their pet once: owners were moving abroad, couldn't take the dog (now aged about 5), breeders took her back and kept her till she died (including some hefty vet bills)
Owner of a very good working dog who bred a single litter (which iirc he advertised): owners, despite having been given the run-down on what a demanding breed and line this was, and assuring the breeders that they'd do what was needed, claimed when the dog was about 2 that she had become aggressive; she arrived back largely untrained and unfulfilled, was taken in hand and is now in work; she will stay with the breeder now.

So that's three, of which at least two were not from 'good breeders' as sometimes defined.

And besides, as I said before, I don't think full health tests are necessary for both sire and dam. Hips yes, but recessive genetic cock-ups, no.