Reactive puppy

[Usernametaken12]

Spaniel x collie puppy is reactive on walks

We have had since a puppy he got ‘ambushed’ on a walk which is where we feel it started altho that wasn’t instant

got to the point where on walks he would bark and lunge at whoever he see I am now probably down to ignoring 70% acknowledging 20% and barking and lunging at 10%

he wouldn’t let strangers stroke him

I don’t want him to be the dog that runs up to everyone thinking they can play etc but would be nice for him to be polite haha

has anyone had a dog like this who has completely got over this or is he likely to be like this forever

How do you manage his reactivity?

One trick we learnt was to hold a high value treat in front of their nose as you pass a dog, so they are focussed on you, rather than the other dog, and give them the treat when passed the other dog.
also,

if he wants to say ‘hello’, Get him to sit first, and let the other dog approach you. Don’t let your dog approach until he is sitting nicely (you probably will have to explain to other dog owner that your dog is in training).

Regarding strangers stroking him, this really an issue. Just don’t let strangers stroke him. He’s not their plaything.

Reactive dogs shouldn’t be encouraged to say hello to random dogs - even if you say your dog is in training.

No one will appreciate their dog being lunged and snapped at and unless you’re a very experienced owner you will miss the warning signs your dog is giving out before he lunges. Reactive dogs can go from fine to 100% in seconds.

All dogs can give out signals indicating they want to say hi - then suddenly change for any reason. Reactive dogs more so & the smallest thing will change their behaviour.

That’s really bad advice, although I’m sure you meant well.

The best thing to do is teach a reactive dog to ignore, not put them in situations where they may well react. OP - get a behaviourist in to work on this. It needs proper handling and even the smallest error on your part can reinforce bad behaviour

He does have someone we’re working with so training wise that isn’t the issue

just more wondering if anyone who had a reactive dog has ever seen it completely disappear

it’s more people than dogs so hard as he could walk past 10 fine so for them we’re at the point of rewarding when he engages with us ignores but then would bark at the next person but until he does this you don’t know who it’s going to be so can’t do the hold food in front of him (that’s how we started)

And in regards to other dogs we don’t encourage meets in the park (we have an on lead obedience class so gets to be around others without going close to them) but it appears recall is something that owners don’t teach there dogs around here 😂

just not what you imagine the dog to be when you get them especially when everything was done ‘right’ by us it’s others mistakes that have cause it

just more wondering if anyone who had a reactive dog has ever seen it completely disappear

Ahh sorry!

Unfortunately, it doesn't. You can manage it, but ultimately it will always be there and anyone who says otherwise is lying to you and to themselves - as with any behavioural issue, there is no cure just management. It's rough and really hard tbh as you're always on edge worrying about the next poorly behaved dog with no recall.

I have a 100% border collie, she's 17 months,was absolutely fine, until last year, taking the 2 both borders out for an evening walk. It's dark, they've got reflective harnesses. I had one dog in each hand, plus a torch. I live in a village, the road was empty, I got halfway across the road,a transit van parked further up the road facing the opposite way. He did a u turn and is heading straight for me, not slowing down. I rushed back into the pavement, the youngest dog is in a blind panic, Yelping, struggling so much, she managed to get the snuggly fitting harness caught round her back legs,so then she's struggling more. I put the torch down, I've still got another dog. (I have a hat with an led light now) It was so difficult to try and get the harness back on. She was terrified of cars and headlights. We started from scratch. I took her out avoiding both for a while, just her. Then gradually introduced her to neighbours cars, headlights. She hasn't completely chilled, she doesn't like things like wheelie bins on the path. We've had lots of border collies and other dogs. Both the ones we have now used to lunge towards cars, the trainer said tube of cream cheese,much more high value than biscuits or even sausage, under their noses when there was a car coming. Some time my oldest doesn't like a particular dog, never know when, she's reactive on lead,so I have warning bright yellow leads, stating "reactive please give space"

I don't know if you have had dogs before. Agree with the last post,you manage it,same as a difficult or nervous child..we had a friend with a spaniel/border, absolutely barmy real nightmare. It's not recommended,nor is GS/border cross.. my youngest is like a human with OCD or autism, doesn't like anything moved!

I have two collies, wonderful dogs but highly strung. Crossing this with a spaniel is nuts! Nothing much you can do except training. It’s actually fine that it doesn’t like other dogs, some dogs just aren’t sociable.

I would agree with @LandSharksAnonymous We have a DDog, same cross, we adopted him from a rescue aged 3. We were told he was reactive to other dogs, but our last springer/chocolate lab cross had similar issues with we adopted her aged two, so we thought we were reasonably prepared 🤦🏼‍♀️
We don’t know what triggered this in our DDog but suspect he was a lockdown pup and was never properly socialised. He also had three owners prior to us in three years, I found that out when I registered us on his chip. He wasn’t the happiest bunny in the shelter the dog next to him barked incessantly and he just cowered in the corner staring at where this noise was coming from. Loud noises freaked him out as well as dogs. We found that out quickly.
I am sick to death of the ‘It’s OK he/she is friendly’ walking towards us while I am doing my Police Stop Hand and ‘NO!’
He is actually fine if someone takes the time to stand with their dog and share treats. Once saliva has been shared with the treats, they are friends. But another dog rushing him, sticking its face in his or barking/growling at him…. (How do I know what it said? )

We have seen a trainer (awful, Spencer peed on him which was more eloquent than our complaints ), behaviourist (kept changing his food, saying it was his diet), the vet prescribed Trazadone and did a pain panel (just in case). I have been up at 5am and out at 10pm walking him just to avoid triggers. We knew all the dog parks within a 20 mile radius of our house. He improved hugely when we saw a really good trainer/behaviourist and a friend with land gave us access to her large field a minute from our old house.
Im not an expert but I am guessing that a pup who possibly hasn’t had this behaviour ingrained for as long, may find it easier to unlearn. But it is good days and bad and if you have more good days than bad then that’s improvement and you are winning.
@LandSharksAnonymous is right on another point. DDog used to have his ‘dog radar’ ears and walk/stance. I knew that somewhere ahead of us, even if we were at the top of the hill and it was at the bottom, out of sight, there was another, bloody dog. (Stay calm, assess driveway hide outs and detours on the way down….). Now we have moved house the radar ears have gone. He just happily sniffs about and….BAM! There’s a dog. And sometimes the little sod completely ignores it. As I said good days…..and last night🙄
Prepare yourself that this is not an easy fix. Look for a trainer/behaviourist, ask your vet for recommendations, they may have one on staff.
You don’t mention how your dog was ambushed, by people? Other dogs? People really need to learn that dogs aren’t toys.
Watch his behaviour around triggers or when a trigger may be coming. Remember, he/she isn’t looking for something, as you would they can smell things way before we can see them and collies have a phenomenal ability to pick up movement. Just look out for any behaviour changes, you might not have noticed anything but chances are your dog has and you will have more opportunities to plan evasive action, or avert issues.
Sorry for rambling. I don’t know if this is trainer/behaviorist advice or even correct, but I found with Spencer that diverting some of the crazy energy he put into being nervous towards another activity such as agility and scent training calmed him down and made walks less fraught. This may just be my boy. Not sure when a pup could start these though.
Wishing you the best. Please feel free to pm me with DDog updates. It would be great to hear how you are getting along.

It kind of depends what you mean by completely getting over it tbh.

Collies aren’t a particularly social breed, it’s pretty common for them to be aloof with strangers and strange dogs, spaniels tend to be more human social but it’s not rare for them to not want much to do with other dogs.

Obviously lunging and barking is different, but given you’ve already got him from reacting to everyone to just 10% I don’t see why that would concern you as that’s really good progress.

So what’s it you’re looking for? No barking and lunging sounds achievable, but being happy to interact with strange people and dogs honestly might not be, you’ve got the wrong dog if that is important to you.

I agree with @LandSharksAnonymous a dog 'trainer' is very different to a dog behaviourist which is probably your better option. I worked in welfare for a few years rehoming (a different bred) for a breed charity. I'd say hand on heart that the dogs who were reactive didn't change. A bad experience can change the dog for life and not a lot can undo that. Yes, as a PP outlined, you can reduce the reactivity to say, a car, lights, etc.. if you know what is causing the problem. If it's only 'certain' dogs you'll probably never know.
I have a middle aged Newfoundland, she is typical of the breed - loves people, kids and gets on with all other dogs, or should I say did. She's even got an endorsement from my vet to be a therapy dog.
Her reactivity started with a border collie who lives near me and whom I had a lot of sympathy as he was a rescue with severe aggression towards other dogs. One day he passed the front in my house when my Newfie was behind the railings. He was in the lead but he just went beserk as they passed, at my dogwhi was in her own territory. She went back at him through the railings (those black cast iron type with swirly patterns) with full force and if they'd got at each other it was a kill or be killed situation. His owner had worked very hard with him - for years at this point.
I was so shocked to see my beautiful, stable, sweet girl, defend herself as I hadn't heard so much as a growl from her until then. She never forgot that dog. Year or so later, in a similar scenario, me having forgotten all about it, he passed again. It was dark and I was unloading things from a weekend away. Again, my Newfie was lying down behind the gate waiting for me to come and go. I don't see him coming and he mustn't have seen me, as he usually took a wide birth after the first incident. The next thing I knew, my girl pushed straight past me when I came into the gate. Legged it up the street and jumped on top of his BC. It was awful. Neither him, nor I were to blame as both scenarios are an example of two dogs, just being dogs. However; that first incident changed my Newfoundland. She has since encountered aggressive dogs (usually a Cockerpoo or smaller dog who is frightened of her size), and she will will retaliate if provoked which she never used to do, she used to use her size and ignore when younger. I can't fix it permanently as I don't know which dogs are giving her the bad vibes as she is 10 x quicker at picking up the words than I am, even though I've studied behaviour for years as a hobby.
I now walk her away from other dogs. Giving her plenty of space if we have to pass a reactive dog is the best scenario for her. Distance and me not letting her get her head in front of me / blocking the fixating stare, also helps stops negative encounters, but nothing will get her back to the solid, carefree dog she was prior to that attack.

*signs not words

My 2 borders absolutely love people. My last one PTS in 2015 was not bothered by people including us, she pretty much kept herself to herself, the others like to sleep on the bed with us..

Hi

thank you all for your replies I have read them all and sorry for those people all also have the same problems

mixed bag regarding the breed as the ones I have known have been lovely all round dogs

And in regards to strange people/dogs I probably worded it wrong I don’t expect him to be friendly in terms of going up to them letting them pet him etc just to not care about people walking past and existing around him really

I got him to be part of the family and a normal family thing of going park together couldn’t happen we have to do separately which seems a shame

on the plus side he gives great hugs when I sit crying regretting the day finding out he exists as I feel like someone is being let down whether it be him or the kids which is a really shit way to be

My boy got reactive with people and dogs at about 7 months old. He would shy away and bark at anyone who reached out to him, bent down to him or stared at him. Worse in the house, backing off and growling. He had a few incidents with dogs and ended up growling at them as well.
He's slowly got more confident and now he's 2 he's a million times better. He will play nicely with dogs and come away when I call him. He greets people nicely now, but sometimes doesn't want to be stroked by strangers which is fine by me.
Things that helped
I don't let him say hello to any dog if they are on leads. ( asking for trouble)
If I think the dog approaching off lead looks a bit full on ( you get good at spotting them) I will ask for it to be put on a lead
I will always advocate for my dog. Stand in front of him, don't let dogs or people get in his space, if necessary I'll be forceful.
Don't let him get triggered stacked. If he has a stressful/exciting encounter or a close call (him or another dog getting a bit angsty) I'll make sure he stays away from the next dog he encounters. Quit while you're ahead!
I cross the road if there isn't much space on the pavement and there are people.
Basically I try to set him up for success.
It's been a learning curve that I've not had to do before. My previous dog loved everyone and everything and this one has been brought up exactly the same with socialisation and no bad experiences.He's just got a completely different personality and is just more flighty.
Sorry about the essay but I wanted to say when mine was a year old I was in despair but now he's a completely different dog. Training and supporting him and just waiting until he's grown up a bit.
Don't give up!

“mixed bag regarding the breed as the ones I have known have been lovely all round dogs”

I’m not for a second suggesting that either breed is supposed to be reactive - that is definitely a separate thing and yep very stressful to live with.

Just trying to work out what you’re asking and what you’re expecting of him.

Because it kind of sounds given his progress so far that not reacting might be realistic, but happily interacting might not be.

One of my current dogs is a collie, he’s rarely interested in meeting strange dogs and strange people even less so, he has no behavioural issues, he’s not reactive or aggressive, but he’ll often just ignore dogs trying to greet him and if a stranger tries to stroke him he recoils and looks at them in a very similar look of horror that I’d give if a stranger tried to stroke me 😂

He’ll start to greet them if he’s met them a few times, and he’s very affectionate with anyone he knows well, just not interested in strangers.

What has who you’re working with said about your training goals?

Very common for the mix of breed you have. Get a good behaviourist on board not a trainer. You need to change the dogs emotional response to the situation not just train them how to behave.

The incident with the dog may have kicked off the response but your dog would have been predisposed to this behaviour anyway. eg another dog experiencing the same incident may not have the same fallout our dog does.

With a lot of time and excellent advice from the behaviourist you should get to a stage where if is easier to live with and manage the behaviour.

You may never get to the stage where you have a calm extrovert dog who wants to meet and greet all people and dogs.

In the beginning stages of having a reactive dog it is very common and healthy to grief the dog you thought you were getting and find the situation overwhelming.

A good behaviourist may cost money so do shop around and make sure they are qualified. It is money well spent and will sort out the issue way quicker than some trainers or internet behaviourists.

Do get some good support, concentrate on what your dog can do well now and take it step by step.

My dog learnt to ignore all dogs using clicker training. Only took a day or two. Made walking so much better all round. Look at clips on YouTube, it's all about the timing. I was sceptical too.