Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - get teenage licks right through the night!

[Bupster]

I've buckled and started the new thread - welcome to the horror of adolescence!

At least we are all in it together!!

@YorkshireFelix oh bless him, is he alright? Could the limp and the lack of sleeping be linked?

Brilliant about your sit-stay progress! It's one of those skills that you can see a measurable difference in when they get it, so it's super satisfying.

A wise dog friend once said to me, sometimes they don't deserve to be trained, and it's hard to disagree. But I think training instead of a walk per se is a good idea if you have the bandwidth– you too can be like Spaniel Man! But far less pompous x

@YorkshireFelix @Nella68 I could have written almost everything you've written too! I'm so glad we have this thread (and @brushingboots spaniel wisdom).

In a bid to distract myself from all the horrors, I'm madly grazing academic research on dog adolescence. On balance, being pulled down a muddy bank and being attacked by a swan might be slightly preferable, especially as he has now woken up and is refusing to nap again. I'm counting down the minutes to 3pm when I can take him up to the dog park and let him off lead and he can run around with his besties as much as he likes*

*until I have to pull the little sod out of a hedge backwards

This is my pups at the moment. We’ve got the builders on the flat roof again, right above his head, and he only barked once when they arrived. Very pleased that he’s desensitised to them!

I’ve got to wake him up in a moment to take my daughter riding. Getting his harness on has become a bit of a pain. As soon as he senses we’re about to go out he hides under the table. Getting the harness on isn’t a problem he stands still, but I think we’ve inadvertently trained him to go under the table as he knows he’ll get a treat to get him out. I’ve had to completely change my routine as he has the uncanny knack of knowing when he needs to have his harness on!

@Bupster I know what you mean – sometimes the walk is about surviving and you just can't take on any extra elements. Don't beat yourself up thinking you need to do anything other than get through it. I was just trying to think outside the box for you but I know that sometimes the box itself is plenty to carry.

I am of the school of getting them used to things, personally, so I exposed pupsy to loads of things even when she was being tricky so that she learned to cope with them – and so that I did too. I don't know if that was the right thing to do or not but – with the exception of last week's incident – it seems to have worked OK. I'm not saying she's indifferent to pheasants as she definitely isn't but now we can deal with them in a sensible way, and that's because I've given her a chance to be shown what to do. (All the while learning myself!)

She was hissed at by a giant swan last night having got super close to it but she was offlead and too bold for her own good.

Yes he is fine I think, but it's more of a check over for peace of mind. Ages ago he ran around a bit too excitedly and was limping afterwards, but then was ok after 10 minutes or so. But every few weeks he will randomly limp on this same leg. The vet nurse checked him over when he was in for his worming tablet before Christmas and said she couldn't see an issue, but I just want him checked over properly just in case it's something more. I think he's probably just pulled muscle but because he's always on the go, there's not any time for it to recover, if that makes sense.

So I don't think that would be part of the non-sleeping issue, but you never know !

Did anyone go through a second 'teething' stage around 8 months? Vinny has been chewing everything and biting my arms and hands a lot the past few days and it's driving me insane. I've just been googling and apparently there can be a phase around this age where their molars set into position in their jaw and is painful for them. I've never ever heard anyone mention this before but have just read a load of posts about it on Reddit. Maybe that's why he's been so unsettled in his sleep too? He's currently going ham on a yak chew!!

Bill definitely has days when he needs to bite down on his chews more and he seeks out stuff that is harder to chew on (which isn't always his actual chews 😄). I remember reading somewhere too that they don't finish teething completely till they're nearly a year but it might be younger - so yep, sounds right! Hard plastic seems to be a winner with Bill, or rocks, or I stuff little lamb hooves with liver paste and treatos and that keeps him going for a good five minutes.

@YorkshireFelix I can't specifically remember pupsy having one but I do remember my mum saying to me last year that her spaniel had had a long teething period, so I wonder if she told me that in relation to me complaining about late teething! That might well explain him being unsettled at night. Is he any better or are you still sleeping downstairs?

It must be a thing then! Weird that within my whole intense autistic special interest researching that it's never actually come up before!!

@brushingboots he's still unsettled so poor DH has been on the sofa the past 2 nights and me the 2 nights before that. He's always been such a good sleeper apart from maybe a week when he was around 5 months where he kept barking at night but it passed quickly. I'm sure it must all be related and hopefully this will pass too. I've been letting him upstairs to have a sniff around just in case he does end up having to sleep in our room, to get him used to it so it's not mega exciting when he's up there. Ideally I don't want that to happen but sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do... DD is desperate for him to sleep with her but she has too many little trinkets in her bedroom which would be impossible to dog proof. I don't want him to be shitting out Sylvanian Families 😂

@Bupster he's been chewing the legs of our table and chairs again which he's not done for a long time. I bought an olive wood chew from B&M which he's been enjoying too, and his stinky hooves that smell like farm 🤢 Has Bill ever had an antler? I look at them sometimes and know they are really long lasting but they are sooooo expensive.

@YorkshireFelix he's got a split antler from Anco that cost all of £3.75 I think! they last forever so it's a good buy anyway, though he doesn't choose it that often.

I have ADHD and have hyperfocus rabbit holes so that's how I have so much random knowledge too 😄No idea what I'm meant to be doing at work tomorrow, or what's in the Box of Doom on my dining table.

I took him out for a massive four minute drive today to go to a new walk, one that for some reason I've been avoiding and have been feeling really anxious about. Honestly, it was ridiculous. It was a very boring walk by human standards - an old coach road, so basically a mile long straight path through some cabbage fields - but for Bill it was an absolute joy, he found so much to sniff and dig and all of it new. And he was a Very Good Boy and checked in with me every time, so I kept saying go sniff, go dig, and it took us about an hour and a half to do the length of it and back to the car. A definite winner to go back and do during a lunch break though, and now I'm confident enough to try to find a new walk six minutes away 😄

Ahh fab well done Bill (and you!!) 🥳

At 19 months we are slowly coming out of it! It's been a ride I can tell you. Blind in one. Reactivity. He's turning into a lovely young lad. I hope.

Morning everyone. I have been quiet as I feel like I am just whinging a lot at the minute!

Still struggling with V not being happy left alone at night. We're still taking it in turns to sleep on the sofa with him which is less than ideal. DH thinks he has separation anxiety and I fear he might be right - it just seems odd that it has happened almost overnight really. I've been reading the guides on DTAS and it's helped me understand different types of anxiety. I thought it can't be SA since he is fine being left in the day, but I've read into it all and what seems to trigger him is in the evening when we go upstairs and he's left alone. DH went upstairs to brush his teeth last night (I had already gone to bed) and V started howling immediately.

I am going to buy a plastic bed for our bedroom and try and get him used to being up there. I don't want to make it worse but equally we are both exhausted. We tried having him upstairs again a couple of nights ago but he was too excited to sniff around as it's a new place for him to explore so I ended up downstairs again with him.

I am so stressed about it all as I dont want to do anything wrong and cause more issues further down the line. It might be that it's just a developmental thing but I am totally out of my depth really as I thought we were doing so well with him until recently.

His recall has gone down the pan too. He won't come back to the whistle AT ALL and it used to be so solid. I know it's all teenage stuff and knew this would happen, and it's going to carry on for a while, so not looking for advice but just need to vent to people who understand!! I have put so much work into him and know if I carry on, he will come back around.

But I will end on a couple of positives so it's not all doom and gloom:

We have been really trying with his sit and stay and he's still improving. We've had more instances of him staying sat after his treat rather than buggering off, so that is very good!

I've also been trying hard with his release cue and he's doing well with that too. He loves having the Harringtons wet food with his kibble so has been eating really well. It's the first time he's ever been excited to see his food bowl, and he will sit nicely until I release him to eat. I've also been using it alongside the sit/stay and also releasing from his crate if he ends up napping in there in the daytime.

And he is still great at coming back to me and staying close if someone is approaching, or sitting and waiting for people/dogs to pass if he's on his lead.

His harness finally arrived last night and he let me put it on and adjust it with a bit of bribery. So today we are going back to basics and I am putting him on the longline. No woodland walks for the foreseeable which I'm a bit sad about but it's only temporary so it's fine.

Sorry this is the longest post ever! So my TDLR is: Vinny is anxious and we are exhausted, but he will now sit on his bum, is getting better at his release cue, will sit and wait nicely and loves his food 😄

I hope everyone is doing well!

@YorkshireFelix sorry to hear that Vinny is still unsettled at nighttime. It must be exhausting.

I think I need to bring back the longline too. I’ve been working hard on recall and thought we were doing really well and I was beginning to enjoy walks again. Yesterday and today he has shown me up by buggering off after another dog- I’ve been vigilant and have been putting him back on the lead when I spot a dog but today he went haring after a flock of crows and then a dog, and yesterday he went out of sight and when I caught up there were a couple of owners hanging on to a lunging Rottweiler and Doberman. Not ideal. They were sympathetic and said they had been there too.

It seems like it’s one step forward and two steps back.

I’ve ordered some treats from the fish4dogs site so hope they’re high enough value to interest him in coming back. I’m booking in another session with the trainer so hope he can give me tips for competing against distractions.

@YorkshireFelix I can't comment on the sleep, our older one came into our room permanently at 5 months after rarely having a continuous night's sleep before that and the younger one joined as soon as we were confident with toilet training.

Ooh I was going to look at fish4dogs after it was mentioned the other day but I forgot, so thanks for the reminder!

Sorry to hear you're having a similar issue with recall etc. I have worried the past few times on our walk that he's going to end up buggering off then coming across some unfriendly dogs too so sorry that happened!! But at least their owners were sympathetic.

Long line is probably the best way to go for you too for now. Hopefully it won't have to last too long! It will be worth the pain in the long run 😄

@YorkshireFelix Ahh no, I’m so sorry to hear that he’s still not sleeping. Seems very odd and I agree very strange that it’s come on overnight when nothing has (as far as you know) changed. I can only think that it must be a developmental thing – some kind of fear period that has been triggered by being downstairs at night? Especially if he’s fine during the day.

Re recall etc, he really will come back to you, literally – just keep doing what you’re doing. I know it’s tough and the dog you know vanishes for a bit but I know how much work you’ve put in and he will pull through and come back to you if you just keep reinforcing what you’ve always done.

Brilliant re him sitting after reward – that’s just what you want, and that shows that he is in there somewhere! And food too, it’s so nice to see them being enthusiastic about food, which might sound weird to other breed owners but I found it so hard getting pupsy to be keen on her food too. Back to basics is what they need at that age. I remember very clearly one day when pupsy was just a horrible dog on a walk, wouldn’t listen, didn’t want to be with me, and the next morning I took her out on the longline and it had such an instant impact. I went on a walk that would be perfect for a longline this morning – nice wide fields and dykes – so if you fancy a trip down we would love to walk (and commiserate) with you x

Yes I think this is the way we might have to go. It doesn't hugely bother me having him upstairs with us to be honest, but he was always so happy downstairs in his crate from early on so we just kept it that way. Although maybe the fact his bloody hairs get everywhere might annoy me 🤣

I just need to work on getting him to settle in our bedroom for now. It's actually quite boring as it's not huge, and we don't have a lot of 'things' in there, but he just finds it SO exciting since it's a new place. I might have to work from my bedroom for a bit in the daytime to get him used to being up there.

@Nella68 I’m sorry to hear that Midge is being a pain too. When he bogs off, what do you do in response/what does he do? Does he just bog off and not look back?

I wish there was a magic button I could press from afar to help with the recall trials as it is really rubbish to not enjoy walks, since they are supposed to be fun, or, at least, not awful. If you fancy a trip over here, to Lincs, or somewhere in between, I also extend the hand of the thread and pupsy to you and M x

Thank you so much, you always know what to say to give me hope!! I keep telling myself that this is just a short stage in his life, and our lovely dog will emerge from the teenage cocoon if we just stick with it. I think I am just finding it all a bit overwhelming and wish DH was around more to give me a hand with everything. But it is what it is.

I think with the night time thing, I'd be more accepting of it if it had happened gradually. But it's like a switch has just been flipped. So I am mostly thinking it's a fear period type thing than full blown separation anxiety but I can't be sure. His chewing is still off the charts too so I'm sure it's all linked. DH bought him this Kong thing last night which is meant to be really tough and I've had to take it off him as he's chewed right through it already, and I've just had to stop him gnawing at the wall next to me.

I will definitely try and get down your way at some point for sure. I think I need to find some new places to walk which would be more suitable for the long line. We could go down the canal path but it can get quite busy sometimes so not sure that's a good idea. I've not actually taken him up on the moor yet so that might be an idea, as I'm sure some parts are quite well trodden so not much to get tangled up in. The playing field we go to is fine but it's SO boring...

Here to join the whingefest! I mean that in the most celebratory way, we're stuck with this for a while so we might as well have a moan together.

Bill is APPALLING right now. Yanking constantly on the lead - I'm going to have to put him back on the training lead connected to front and back and do dedicated heelwork sessions, which are so boring, and such hard work on cold mornings when your hands are in nice warm gloves that you have to take off to fumble with treats. Also have an order in from fish4treats - you get a big bundle from joining the puppy club too. Though if he can't be arsed to walk nicely for salmon paste I'm not sure what is going to work.

His recall is still going backwards - at our current favourite morning place today he came back a few times then decided 'screw this, I can smell a squirrel'. It's okay there, as it's safe, but exasperating beyond belief when he's only 20 metres from me and squirrel smells really aren't all that exciting in the scheme of things. I only had poached turkey in his recall treatos pot, but bloody hell, what does he want, lobster???

Don't even ask me about the bloody car.

In the meantime his regular daycare report he is an absolute darling with them, perfect behaviour, and pops into their backseat if they have to drop him off with no problem at all. I am very much getting the Kevin the teenager vibe here ("I hate you, I wish I was adopted" 😄)

At home he's a whiny pain in the backside at times, but still sweet and loving and very squidgy, and steals something that makes me laugh most days, so he is spared from the kebab van for another week. Seriously, I love the bones of him, but he's such hard work right now, and I know I have so long to go before he gets any better. I feel like I'm doing everything right and everything I can, but I must be missing something.

What's your release cue, @YorkshireFelix ? I tried to teach Bill one but it's not really stuck. I think @brushingboots is probably right and the overnight thing is confidence as much as anything. You might find that once you actually get him in your room and ignore him at bedtime he'll conk right out.

@brushingboots thanks for the words of encouragement!

When he chases crows he loops round and will look at me at some point I’ll call and wave my arms and he comes back. If I time it right I can get his attention before he goes after the birds and he’ll come back. If he looks like he’s about to dance around I’ll run in the opposite direction waving my tug toy and that usually works.
Today he chased a big flock of crows and then spotted the other dogs. Ears were then turned off and he didn’t turn round to look at me so I had to go up to the owner and retrieve him. I always give him lots of praise even if he’s been a bugger!

At times like this it would be good to live closer to people who understand about the frustrations of dog walks. Around here it’s a free for all. A lady who I chat to at my local dog walking area said her adolescent dog was attacked the other day by an off lead dog (bite wound, vet bill). She knew about Midge’s experience at the same place, and can now understand why I get so anxious around off lead dogs I don’t know.

@Bupster it really does help hearing that I’m not alone in this!

@Bupster god the fact he's an angel at daycare makes it even worse doesn't it 😂 It's exactly like having a child who plays up for their parents but is 'a pleasure to have' for everyone else.

We use 'free' as the release word. The trainer said some people use 'ok' but she thinks it's not the best choice as we say it a lot day-to-day in general conversation. She uses 'go play' for her dogs. I kind of half arsed taught him it when he was about younger and wasn't very consistent with using it, but I've really noticed a difference since I've been making an effort the past couple of weeks. It's very satisfying when he's obedient 😄

I'm not sure if Bill also does this but Vinny has ramped up the 'run at you at full pelt and bite you repeatedly' thing at the minute too. My patience is wearing thin.

MN is being weird and not letting me post for some reason. Not sure if anyone else is having an issue. A picture of the well-chewed Kong was meant to be attached to my last post so you will just have to imagine it...