Ddog growled at DD

[Dontcomeforme01]

TLDR - DD (10 ) tried taking food tray dog ( almost 3 ) had taken from the bin. Dog has growled and barked at DD. Never done it before.

Took his crate down today but now wondering if I should put it back up

We've had Ddog since he was a baby, hes almost 3. Hes been raised alongside my children ( 8 and 10 ) and 4 cats.

He has always been absolutely fantastic with us and is a very loving boy. He has always been a food thief 🤣 cant leave anything out or he will have it. Hes never been bothered about having things taken off him that he shouldnt have. He's always had a very large crate and has always been fed in his crate. He's been protective of his food with the cats and would growl and bark at them if they went near his crate whilst he was eating ( not a regular thing I've fed them in separate rooms for years now )

His crate is really large and takes up a good chunk of my front room so I took it down today ( given hes nearly 3 I was hoping I could get rid of it, I only got it because he used to chew as a puppy if I had to pop out )

I've been tidying up and had a bag of rubbish by the door to take it out, I nipped to the toilet and Ddog has gotten part of a food tray with a bit of left over food on it and DD has gone over to take it off him. Hes growled at her and then barked at her. I've rushed off toilet calling down and DD has come upstairs to tell me

I've come downstairs to take it off him and he moved away from it and didnt growl or bark when I took it.

I told him to get on his bed and took the rubbish outside. He was very shameful when I sent him to his bed ( yano what dogs are like when they know theyve done somthing wrong )

after about 10 minutes I got DD to make his dinner and give it to him. He listened and did as asked when she asked him to sit and wait

Do you think I should put his crate back up? Obviously I dont make a habit of leaving rubbish by the door, when DD fed him earlier I made sure he had his space and none of us were near him.

I'm just worried this might now transfer onto his toys ect.

When this happened with my sibling's dog their dog walker friend said that all the (tween and teens) kids needed to re-engage with training to establish dog as lowest in the pecking order otherwise the risks could increase.

I would put the crate back up for now and seek advice.

Please don't perpetuate this dangerous myth about pecking order, pack order theory has been discredited.

told him to get on his bed and took the rubbish outside. He was very shameful when I sent him to his bed ( yano what dogs are like when they know theyve done somthing wrong )
I don't think this was wise. He is a dog. Not a human.

“D” dog, seriously?

told him to get on his bed and took the rubbish outside. He was very shameful when I sent him to his bed ( yano what dogs are like when they know theyve done somthing wrong

Nonsense. He was probably reacting to your tone and body language. How's he supposed to know he did something wrong? He just acted exactly as a dog would in that situation.

A growl is part of dog communication. It's a good thing he growled. Hopefully you didn't punish him because next time he might skip the growl and go straight to biting.

The dog shouldn't ever be able to access stuff out of the bin and if he does, that was your fault for leaving it lying around. If he's got something he shouldn't have, you need to swap it with him for a high value treat. Tell your children not to take things from the dog, ever.

And i would put the crate back up if he still uses it. He probably wants his safe space back.

Dogs must be allowed to growl.
It is an expression of anger or frustration and a warning. Dogs not allowed to growl are much more likely to bite without warning.

Agree with the above. Dogs don't know 'right' or 'wrong' they know that the human is angry, but often with no clue as to why.

Sorry, I can't advise; mine aren't crated. I hope somebody can help.

What sort of dog? I get my pups used to having their food bowls handled early on and the cats will eat from the same bowl. But I know that's not true of all dogs.

Growling is a warning, dogs shouldn't be punished for growling.
Also, in general if a dog has something you don't want it to have its better to swap for a treat rather than try and take something away

My dog loves to run to the door and grab the post before me. If I try to take it out his mouth he will growl. So I say to him swap you for a 'his favourite dog treat" and he drops the post and takes the treat.

They are meant to growl to say - stop that I don't like that. Always best to entice them to give something up by giving something else.

Scavenging something out of the bin is slightly different to a meal, it’s a bit more of a treasure. He needs to be taught the drop command and anyone in the house will use the drop command rather than moving in to take his treasure from him. When he has dropped his treasure, you give him a high value reward for doing so as you take it away (whatever he shouldn’t have).

DD probably needs to make tone a bit firmer with him but everyone needs to use drop. If he doesn’t respond to DD with a drop command, she must understand to leave him and come get you to resolve the issue.

DD shouldn’t be taking anything from the fog from this point forward.

This is resource guarding.

If you ever need to take something away from the dog swap it for a treat instead of just taking it.

As someone said, don’t punish the dog for growling - that’s its way of warning. Without that that’s when you end up with bites that are supposedly out of the blue and with no warning.

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm looking for advice on what to do next

I didnt say I'd told him for growling and barking because I didnt. He gets sent to his bed whilst I'm hoovering or the kids are eating snacks ect so Its not an uncommon phrase in our house

I'm fully aware him growling was his warning and I would never tell him off for warning someone.

My children know not to take his food or toys off him and to not go in his safe space, DD tried to take somthing off him that wasnt his, I would of done the same and have in the past with kids toys hes taken ect,

When this happened with my sibling's dog their dog walker friend said that all the (tween and teens) kids needed to re-engage with training to establish dog as lowest in the pecking order otherwise the risks could increase.
I would put the crate back up for now and seek advice

When I got DD to feed this I did this to try to show him DD is someone who can bring him food and that it's a positive ( usually i feed him )

And i would put the crate back up if he still uses it. He probably wants his safe space back

He still has a safe space he has a nice bed and his basket of toys ect. My children have been taught since we had him not to mither him if hes in his bed or crate.

“D” dog, seriously does it matter really?

No. The dog didn't know it had done wrong. Dogs brains don't work that way. They have no concept of right and wrong. Rather they reacted to your body language. I recommend reading Jean Donaldson's book Culture Clash. The Disneyfication of dogs does them a great disservice and makes it harder to solve behaviours.

A good practical way of preventing issues like this is to generally offer up a swap when you take a high value item and offer a treat in return for the drop.

I read/got mixed advice about this when he was a puppy. Some people said to handle his food bowl a lot, others said not to ( same as online )

I ended up opting to leave his food bowl alone unless I was adding to it ( I will ask him to wait a minute and I'll add things to it ) He's always guarded the cats from his food even if he was in his crate ( that was as a puppy I stopped feeding them in the same room when I realised it was bothering him

Hes a German shepherd cross labrador

I don't think you need to put the crate back up. You made a mistake and the dog got something he shouldn't. It doesn't sound like it will happen again.

As for the growling, I think thats pretty standard, particularly to a child who can easily be scared off whatever precious goody he's guarding. You could do some resource guarding training with your kids and the dog. I was lazy and from the moment they could understand I just told my kids to never take anything from the dog, ever.

Thags a good idea about the treat. He is a very food orientated dog 😅

I dont ever try to take things out of his mouth I've always asked him to wait and he will drop things and sit nicely. DD didnt touch him she stepped near him and bent down to take it and he growled and barked

No I know, I've stressed this repeatedly to my children ( both asd ) over the years to my children that if he ever growled its him warning ( this is why today was a shock is is almost 3 and has never growled at any of us )

We use wait in this house but he loves learning new tricks so will enjoy learning drop.

It's a good idea because I've told DD she isnt to ever try and take anything from him again now, I wouldnt want to risk him feeling like he had to bite. A high value treat is a good idea, he loves rabbit ears so that will be a good try

I dont tend to leave rubbish hanging about ( hence this being the first incident in almost 3 years ) so I'm hoping there isnt a repeat incident but I dont even want the kids to try and play with him now, I trust him to an extent but I've never left him alone with the kids just incase somthing happened ( their both very nice to him its jusy because some dogs dont give warnings or they do but weve missed them ect, I'd never want to risk having to put him down, hes a really nice boy )

She probably does need to be a little firmer, he listens to the kids if they have a treat or his food but if their playing he wont stop until I tell him to ( he gets giddy )

I think she does understand not to push him as such as as soon as he growled he barked within seconds, she disnt touch the food tray but immediately came upstairs to tell me, I was already a few steps down asking what was going on

I feel a little sad for him, I'm home all day so he doesnt spend often in his crate unless he goes in there off his own accord, but I felt bad that I have had to leave him in crate when I do go out. I was hoping to give him free run of the front room because he does like relaxing on the sofa / rug..... and its huge so it takes up a huge chunk of my front room I'd love to gave back 😅

Is it awful that this is what I was hoping to hear 😅

It wont happen again regarding a bag of rubbish, this is the first time we've ever had an incident like this ( he's always been a food thief so I learnt from when he was a puppy to make sure there was nothing he could have ) today I just quickly popped to the toilet before I put the rubbish out,

It's just because it was so quick I'm concerned. The kids have always been really respectable of hisboubdaries as I've always enforced it,

She definetly was scared off she came to me straight away bless her, I'm going to have to Google about how to train regarding resource guarding, had some good advice about high value treats upthread but there will be more to it than that

Its bothered me that hes never growled at me and I've had to take things off him in the past ( kid toys ect ) and hes never growled at me but today hes growled at DD

They know not to take his things but it's always been me whose taken kids toys off him in the past ect & if he ever has managed to snag some food hes eaten it before it could be taken 😅

The behaviourist we consulted for Resource Guarding told us NOT to deliberately touch DDogs food bowls or take his food away half way through feeding. She was a specialist in Resource Guarding who rehabilitated extreme cases from Dogs Trust
She said it could increase anxiety around food, the best thing was to try and remove all stress associated with food instead. When ddog used to resource guard on her advice we used a relaxed voice telling DDog he was a silly boy and that we didn't want that horrible <insert stolen item here> and we were just going to get some cheese instead. Ddog ended up instantly dropping whatever he had stolen instantly on hearing the word cheese, still does.

I dunno, theres been times in the past where I have ignored somthing he has done ( because it's been my fault for leaving somthing out ) and he still acts guilty even if I havnt acknowledged it

Yes a high value treat definetly sounds like a good idea. We have a really good pet shop that's local so I'll grab him some bits when I can

Your dd didn’t seem to give a verbal command so how would he have responded if she sent him to his bed then demanded a drop? IMO ddog was communicating and this isn’t a big deal other than dd needing to learn how she should respond.

THIS, OH SO, SO MUCH I WISH PEOPLE WOULD UNDERSTAND THIS!!

A growl is a communication that they aren't happy with something. Trust us, you WANT the dog to feel able to growl. If they don't, the only language left available to them is to bite. Let them growl. It's communication, and communication with any animal should be a 2 way street.

The create isn't really relevant I don't think. Get your dog used to swapping something good he has for something even better. Pair that with the leave it command.

I have an idiot dog who can break into the bin. He got a bin stuck on his head when we were on holiday and still he believes the risk is worth it to see what bin treasure he can find, so it’s not a judgement as to why he found something. I know that the pet poison helpline exists because I have an idiot dog.

Your DD can try to swap his treasure for a high value treat. She’s 10 so not too young and as long as she goes to get the high value reward first, uses a strong drop and takes the forbidden item as she swaps with the high value she should be fine. If he doesn’t do it straight away, then she just comes to find you.

If the treasure if something poisonous to him like grapes or something that can lodge in his digestive system like corn on the cob or something that could splinter like cooked bones - you could use a stop command. Very firm tone for that one. Then swap for a high value reward. If she sees this happening she should yell at him to stop and yell for you. Keep an eye on him and anytime he goes back to eating the dangerous thing yell stop again until you can arrive with a high value reward to swap for whatever he’s got. With something you don’t want him to have but won’t cause a trip to the vet, I’d use the drop command and swap.

As she’s 10 she can probably start learning about dog body language so even when they aren’t growling, you can tell when they are uncomfortable. He has a safe space and knows to go on his bed if he’s had enough, so she can practice drop with lots of rewards and lots of praise. It’s probably a good idea that everyone can get him to do a drop but practice with a toy for a really high value treat - liver, cheese, sprats, venison would all be winners in this house, you don’t want to be practicing with a rabbit ear as he’d be fat and you’d be skint! Rabbit ears are good to have in for when you do need to swap some foraged treasure.

I agree with you here and not PPs.

My dog definitely knows when he’s done something wrong. I always know if my dog has been scavenging in bins (or usually kids school bags 😡) when I’m out as he’s not waiting for me by the door and instead usually hiding under my bed or sofa.