Insurance - can I ask some questions?

[tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz]

Afternoon all, hoping to get some clarity before starting to look at insurance for a border terrier puppy we will be bringing home in a few weeks.

I understand that you can get policies which are "lifetime" and those which are a set period, I guess typically 12 months.

With lifetime does this mean with the same provider but prices are still likely to go up each year?

And how does the pre existing conditions thing work with different policy types?

I'm feeling a bit clueless when with any other insurance I'm fine!

Can someone walk me through it? An idiots guide, if you will?!!

Lifetime policies are essential imo - they'll be more expensive but it means if your dog has (say) stomach issues at 2, they'll be covered again if they have the same issue at 6 and 10. You also really want the highest level of cover you can afford. We pay £57 a month with Tesco and that gets us 15k of cover per year.

Thanks!

Lifetime cover - what happens if you change providers ... are any conditions they have now classed as new therefore not covered?

Lifetime cover is essential! It means they can't stop providing insurance to you.

Our puppy was diagnosed with epilepsy after less than 2 months with us, he will be on medication for life of course.

Our insurance has paid out in full for everything, he's now 4 so that's a lot of money. Yes our premiums have gone up but it's still less than paying everything ourselves.

No new insurer will cover his epilepsy even if they are cheaper.

Yes, you have to declare your dog's entire vet history.

Pre-existing conditions will make a difference to your premium, and may not be covered at all. You'd need to check at point of re-insuring with your potential new provider. For some things, if the dog is fully cured and there is no recurrence in the first (specified time) with the new insurer, it will drop off (things like treatment for a one-off dog vomiting bug) But some things might be excluded completely (eg a chronic gastric issue).

Check what dental is included - for most it's injury and specified conditions only; routine scrape and polish (which has to be done under anaesthesia) isn't. So get your puppy happily accepting a toothbrush from the off!

This is all really helpful thank you!

So have I got this right ... if I take a lifetime policy then any newly diagnosed conditions (assuming not excluded) that they cover they will always cover as long as I stay with that provider?

Then I guess I still shop around as a different provider may still be cheaper even with having to declare?

Unfortunately for either normal or lifetime policy, if you’ve claimed or dog has existing condition, whoever you change policies to this condition will not be covered with a new provider. We have a medium/silver lifetime policy with Emporium Insurance, it only covers £4,000 per condition, per year, the difference between silver and gold is about £40 per month, so a lot more expensive. The difference I pay into a savings account, as I’ve only claimed once in 6 years for a skin infection which was paid in full. With most pet insurance you have to pay vet first and then get reimbursed from insurance provider, so if you’ve claimed or don’t have the means to pay a hefty bill, ask your vet who they deal with, so that can be settled directly by insurance company.

Just FYI (as I've only just discovered this) - spaying/neutering is classified as "routine" care for a pre-existing condition that isn't covered by most policies, even if you get rolls royce all singing all dancing cover. So they'll pay for injuries and illnesses but not a vet procedure like neutering.

Ahhh. Ok.

Thanks all. It's a minefield isn't it? I am generally very risk averse so probably am always slightly over insured at the best of times ... I guess I need to be careful to get the balance right with this. As heart could rule head.

Must admit I'm starting to question the wisdom of becoming a pet owner

Tell me these second thoughts are normal?!!!

Yes it’s normal to have all sorts of second thoughts!!

I think it’s worth insuring a young dog, for as high a ceiling as you can afford, on a lifetime policy

Neutering isn’t covered, but if you have a policy for an unspayed bitch, the premiums will be higher (high end policies will cover one pregnancy/whelping, that element can be removed once spayed, also risks of some cancers and pyometra are reduced).

Remember to add in costs of vaccinations and wormers (or joining your vets ‘club’ that covers that plus a 6 monthly once-over plus discount on some purchases from the vet - all for a fixed fee monthly, cost varies by size of dog)

Border terriers are great so enjoy .One thing to make sure about pet insurance is will they pay the vets directly and will the vets accept this . I was out of pocket for 9 months with many pets and a £995 vets bill which they did eventually settle. I hadn't claimed previously and had a very robust lifetime policy I thought.
Explains why our vets want paid and then you claim from insurance I suppose.
I suspect that's why vets push petplan .

I have a life time cover for my dog, means they pay out for his chronic conditions for life but as you say I can't let my insurance lapse or change companies. However, it's been great for me - I've always claimed back more or equal to what I've paid in premiums!

My premium does increase each year, but not ridiculously so. I have to pay a larger excess now he's over 12 though.

I’ve just changed insurer for my cats. We were with Tesco who doubled their price overnight (they’ve changed underwriters and I think that could be why). My cat has a neurological condition that we were claiming monthly for to cover her meds (not a huge amount), we have declared this to the new insurer (Petsure) who will be quarter the price of Tesco, and they won’t cover the current medication. They will however cover any deterioration or any new treatment, so it is possible to change insurers as long as you are honest.

If you have pre-existing conditions, then you can change insurances, but often the new one says you have to be clear of any claims for two years, for example.

People forget that lifetime cover is only there if you continue to pay for it, and one of my friends is now paying £240 a month! I insure when young, to cover them making stupid decisions and any inherited disease to crop up, plus pay the same amount into savings. Then when they get to 7 switch to savings only.

Beware of big excesses and copayments. So you might pay the first £150 (excess) plus 20% of the total (copayment). Insurance companies can decide to ramp them up anytime they fancy. Most vets will only deal with Petplan direct. So that means that you need to pay the bill then claim the money back. Dental, unless necessary because of an illness or accident, is frequently not covered. As a first time dog owner chosing a company which includes access to a vet online might be a good idea.

If your going from a free policy with a pup/rescue or decide to switch on renewal set to overlap polices so that your 14day exclusion period on new is covered by the old policy.

Lifetime maybe a vet fee £pot per year, £ limit per condition per year or feature a maximum payout per condition so you may find that cover doesn't last the pets lifetime. Read the policy details in full, so many people think they are covered for more than they are from the sales highlights and didn't notice that their vet fee pot comes with conditions only £x for imaging, only £x for surgery etc.
My relative had her pet dental claim denied because they didn't see the treatment needed to be done within 3 months of the vet recommending it.

Many insurers offer a first year discount to lure you in so can have big hike on renewal but don't seek the cheapest cover like you might with car/home as with pet insurance you really need to think long term with both the amount of cover and how reliable the insurer & its underwriter can often face hikes once had a big claim or pets old as can't guarantee you'll still have a clean vet record to allow you to shop around without penalty.

Pre-existing conditions are anything that has been noted in your pets vet records whether you claimed or not. It's often grouped too so can include a wide range i.e all bowel , urinary conditions, any lumps etc.
Some crappy insurers really comb records for anything they can use to avoid paying out like condition was discussed which maybe later was ruled out and try to create links between conditions. This then takes up vet time to challenge on clients behalf. Any insurers that are known to be quibblers & slow payers you'll definitely be expected to pay vet upfront which is tricky when bills can quickly run into thousands.

Petplan are on the expensive side but I never had to pay more than excess upfront as my vets & specialists were happy to direct claim as they pay up fast. I could also put all the claims through without worry of being penalised as it's spread over groups, as with past insurer I ended up avoided claiming unless large vet bill as it only resulted in premium rises so I'd end up paying more back over the dogs lifetime. Petplan continued to cover old dog, the premium % increased at same as younger dog, despite nearly maxing out the £7k policy a few years running and I've seen many similar owners online faced with having to cancel the policy when they need the cover the most as the premiums were increased to few hundred per month.

Petplan did have 20% co-pay of vet bills once dog hits senior years and slightly higher excess but it's known so easier to plan for and id rather pay for what I use and have some control to minimise the bill and stay covered than the crazy increased premiums others had. Many common long term conditions like arthritis are expensive to manage/treat well, but can maintain a good quality of life. My dogs medications alone were more than the monthly premiums.

This is really helpful thank you

Thanks everyone for posting ... I'm now looking at insurance so this is helping.

One question and an example screen shot attached ... cost permitting I want to go for lifetime cover but - and accept I'm probably being a bit thick - what does it mean by

Covered each year
No limit per condition and
£5000 yearly limit

Does it mean that over the dogs life, there's no limit but over the course of a year it's the £5k per condition?

I don't think so.

I'm pretty sure it means that your annual limit is 5k, but you can use all of that 5k on one condition if needed. It then renews each year.

It means that the maximum pay out in any one year is £5k

But that resets annually, and you can claim again up to £5k the next year, whether on the same or different conditions.

The limit is likely to stay at £5k, not be uplifted with inflation, so do think ahead. £5k will cover some quite complex procedures in their entirety now - this may not be the case by the time your pet is 7 or 10 years old, or perhaps even older.

Pet insurance is a scam, don't do it OP.

Save a few quid a month into an account and use that in the unlikely event your dog needs treatment. Vets treat insured and non-insured animals differently, the insured one will get every treatment known to man, "just in case", and the owners feel so much better knowing that they have "saved" a shed load of money by having cover. The insurance companies can then put sad faced pictures of dogs all over their website to guilt trip you into paying ever increasing premiums.

Non-insured pets get just the treatment they actually need, nothing more. Remember, insurance only works if the provider pays out less in claims than it makes in policy payments.

And, if you never need to use the money you saved (which you most likely wont) you can buy yourself something nice with it instead.

I'm in two minds about pet insurance. I think it's sensible to have it if you don't have ready access to about £5k for emergencies or longish expensive treatments. Otherwise, no. A lot of things like cut pads can be treated at home anyway.

Vet insurance is a gamble. You may never need it, but you may never need car insurance, house insurance, or contents insurance… .

However, a friends dog at age eight need eight thousand pounds of scans, tests, medicines etc. Another friend had a cat who had over two thousand worth of operations, X-rays etc. it was less than a year old (got attacked). You just never know.

Agree, but regular saving might not suffice. Best start with a lump sum in a high interest account. All things being equal, by the time the pet's a senior the interest payments will be larger than a senior pet's insurance premiums would be.

Regular savings are on though unless you need access quickly to ££££s immediately.

Not something many of us can do.

Unfortunately I'm a mug who will pay insurance. But I admire the balls of steel others must have not to