Teaching dog to be calm in new walk environments?

[MakeMeJuno]

Hello everyone. I am looking for advice with our 18 month old dog. He is generally fabulous - very confident, social, good with people and other dogs. We have a few usual walks that we do where he will walk relatively nicely on the lead (not pulling but definitely keen to get to the park/woods!) and then I can let him off as he has good whistle recall. I also regularly take him in to town and provided we take the usual train in it's like he 'knows' the expected behaviour.

My issue is new walks, and more broadly new environments. If, for example, we drive to a country park he will go bananas on the lead when we start walking - pulling, barking at birds, the whole thing! He also cannot be let off the lead when he's in this state for obvious reasons. The other day we were with friends and their lovely calm 4 year old golden, and we wanted to walk to the pub. He was atrocious - it was so embarrassing.

My question is how do we combat this? It's like anywhere that isn't our usual routes = so overstimulating.

He is being neutered next week if that helps!

TIA

Watching with interest as we're in exactly the same situation.
It's really frustrating isn't it?
I had a whole future of lovely walks together planned, and mine turns from a little angel into a Tasmanian devil every time I take him somewhere new 🙄

It’s pretty normal and he’s young. Can you use a long line? That will cut that frustration as he’ll have some freedom but you still have control. You probably need to take him to different places more often so he gets used to the higher level of stimulation.

Go back to basics. If he pulls, turn around and re-trace the steps until he doesn’t pull.

@CharliePickle really frustrating and also embarrassing! I kept saying on our walk to the pub 'he's honestly not like this usually' - could see our friends thinking 'yeah sure'... even their dog was giving him a look like wtf chill out lol

@Newpeep yeah the long line is a saviour, but sadly doesn't make the walk enjoyable - he'll still be pulling like a maniac from the car park, for example, but it does mean he can get a run round. I hope you're right that it is just a case of maturing and exposure... I want to take him to the beach as we have family on the coast but he goes absolutely mental at the seagulls, barks at the water... it's like he's possessed and so different from our lovely calm sniffy walks through the woods at home

@Snowmanscarf we did use the stop start method, and this can get him to stop pulling e.g. if he's keen to get to the park/woods, but I honestly don't find it helpful when we're somewhere new and he's totally overstimulated. He will just thrash around on the lead, lunge, bark... I have in the past spent an hour or more trying this in a new environment to no avail - it's like once he's super hyped he just cannot calm himself down, and almost all new environments are too stimulating for him... I know he knows how to walk nicely on the lead because he does it every morning and afternoon on our usual routes!!

Stop start just introduces frustration so it will make it worse. It’s a case of management and exposure. Do you do any training classes? That I have found can really help with developing self control and also they learn to engage with you rather than the environment. I’ve taught agility for 15 years and it’s all pretty normal but there are things you can do to help it along.

You often see this in ‘weekend or holiday’ dogs. Dogs who go to the same place every day then lose their minds when they go somewhere new. I’ve not had a massive problem with my own young dogs as between training classes and also walking in multiple different places they’re just ‘yeah whatever’ in a new one.

@Newpeep we did 1:1 training when he was a puppy, and then some scentwork classes when he was about a year old. He really enjoyed the scentwork and now you mention it that was in a new park and he managed to calm himself there quite quickly. We still do a lot of the exercises we learnt. He also does quite a good 'find it' retrieve with a specific dinosaur toy that I will hide for him in the park, but when we are somewhere new he isn't at all interested in any of it. Really appreciate your reply - what would you do, for example, in the scenario I mentioned where he's going mental on the beach and unable to calm down or listen to me e.g. to engage with any of the games he enjoys usually e.g. the retrieve of the toy? I end up just taking him home which is sad.

I'll definitely look in to whether we can pick up some other classes - he's very smart (he's a hound breed)

That’s what I’d do - classes are better than 1:1 for focus 🙂

With the beach depending on how good his recall is I’d let him go. Beaches are massively stimulating for dogs for a variety of reasons. If he’s not safe to be off or able to be on a long line I’d avoid it until he’s matured a bit. Often they just need to blow off steam but only if safe.

Age is the biggest contributor to behaviour. My working terrier is 2.5 now and only just beginning to act like a grown up. You can see the work we've put in now but at one point I wasn’t sure we ever would 🤣

It will just come with age I think. Our lab's ability to not lose her tiny mind in new and exciting places improved hugely between about 2.5 and 3.

Ours went nuts the first time she went to a beach. But now she's fine. We vary walks a fair bit and she's fairly chilled now she's older. I think they calm down.

Not always...
I had a rescue dog. Sight hound mix. Took her to training and even the trainer commented on how low her threshold was for stimulation.
We never got beyond taking her familiar places and her recall was always unpredictable. We could have worked harder at the training but she was very stubborn and hard to motivate! We never really were able to persuade her that staying with us was more fun.

Walk your dog before you go to a new area. Slow short sniffy walk in familiar area. Helps to get rid of some of the buzz before you arrive.

Drive to new area

Hang around in the new area before you walk from it.

Put some treats on the floor just by the car and do not leave the area until your dog has sniffed and eaten them.

Wait for the arousal to lower before you walk from the area. Do basic easy obedience skills to keep the dog focussed on you. If they find this hard do it a couple of times and leave the area.

Try not to do too much in one go eg new area just you rather than new area and meeting new people and new dogs.

Try to meet new people in familiar area so only some of the criteria is challenging not all of it.

Neutering will make no difference to this behaviour.

Thanks all for your suggestions but also reassurance that age may also improve things! I've started hunting for some local classes @Newpeep - I have had labradors and spaniels before. The former seemed to always be eager to please and do anything for food, and with the latter the ball was always the way to her heart and get her to pay attention to me in any situation... this guy is a whole different dog! He is pretty food motivated but so incredibly independent it's been challenging, but he's also got so much personality and many excellent traits.

@KeenOtter I will definitely try your suggestions - I hadn't thought about doing a new place after a familiar walk! We varied our lunchtime walk today to be a different route and he was pulling so hard it was ridiculous so we ended up just walking backwards and forwards the same 100m until he did eventually calm... I must have looked nuts to anyone watching

Interesting to hear - did she have a high prey drive? We've really had to work to manage that. He now seems to understand certain places are for us to walk together, but if we go somewhere new you can tell us is hunting from the moment we arrive

Hounds and terriers are very different. I’ve had both. My terrier currently is the smartest dog I have ever worked with but also the most trainable. But an eager to please dog she is not.

Dogs largely fall into two camps. Task orientated and results orientated. Spaniels, labs, collies etc fall into the first. They get value from doing with us. Terriers, hounds, guardians fall into the second. What’s in it for me? Very trainable but the end goal needs to be made very easy to start with and reward schedule insanely high. They also have poor frustration tolerance. Ideally your trainer will understand this. A lot don’t though.

A good example is my dog is now regularly competing in Obedience. To get her to work initially it was food for every. Little. Thing. Even for trying as long as she was genuinely trying not trying to make it took like she was trying 😉 If I didn’t she demotivates and mentally checks out. Now she will do full courses with full focus with no food on me, as long as she knows it’s there and she gets it when she’s finished.

It will be the same for anything. Tiny tiny steps. Also capturing choices. They are more powerful than actually asking these kind of dogs do do something. So recall for example I taught by rewarding for choosing to look at me and building from there. You do have to manipulate the environment to get that but you can if you think about it.

Thank you so much for sharing your insight - I do have to remind myself he isn't stubborn - it's on me to work with him. We finally cracked recall by playing hide and seek... I now start every walk hiding from him in the park once hiding behind a tree or something (I must look properly insane but it is what it is!) and it seems to set us up really well (in the 3 environments that we've done time and time again .... like I said anywhere new I cannot trust him). At one point I thought I would never trust him off the lead, so it's important to recognise how far we have come!

Echoing PP. Hounds are not easy pets. They tend to be notoriously difficult to train. They are scent-driven and unlike the gundogs are not at all trying to please you.
Even when living their best life, living in kennels and hunting as a pack it takes a lot of schooling and experience and always several whippers-in to keep them on that job. They are never going to do what that goldie does, because that is not what they are.

High prey drive literally = hound. You'll always have to manage it and you'll never eliminate it.

Yep. My old dog was very scent motivated - high high energy dog, loved to chase - a ball kept her attention until something more interesting caught her nose! Not at all food motivated. Great with people. Very rough play with other dogs. We got her aged about 2 or 3 as a rescue and previous owner had let her roam (which I think she loved!) and found her very biddable indoors but a real handful outside.

I've got a hound and like others have said they are easily frustrated and impulsive which can make new places challenging. That being said, my goal was always to be able to take my dog anywhere and it be 'easy' and although it took about a year we did get there! Take him to as many 'boring' new places as you can like empty car parks where it won't be quite as overwhelming and slowly make it more challenging. Pick a few straightforward behaviours (like a nose touch to your hand) and make them really highly rewarding so the dog is motivated to do them even in more challenging environments. My biggest advice would be to make sure you are planning trips to new places as 'training trips', if your dog can't do it when it's just you and him and that's all you're focussed on, he'll never do it when you're distracted and with your friends. I promise it's hard work but it's so so worth it and this is coming from someone who used to spend time several evenings a week standing outside supermarkets with my dog pretending to wait for someone or sitting at bus stops rewarding a down stay pretending to wait for a bus because people walking past was overwhelmingly exciting (and he now comes everywhere with me easily)

Great advice and glad you hear you've had success @Rainbowstripes ! Happily he is extremely calm and will settle instantly indoors anywhere - cafe, restaurant, pub. It's the great outdoors that sets him off! We have noticed that wide open spaces with lots of birds are the worst e.g. beach with seagulls, so have put those out of the picture for now. This weekend I am going to try some short 5-10 min trips down new streets near us just me and him and see how we go (after his usual sniffy off lead big morning walk)

@villainousbroodmare he has been difficult to train it's true, but when I adjusted my approach and focused more on our bond that's when the magic has happened. Traditional recall for example wasn't really working - it was when I started playing hide and seek with him that we cracked it. I swear sometimes I can have a conversation with him!