How to get a dog to engage outdoors?

[ChesterMcLee]

Hi!
We rehomed a working cocker spaniel a few weeks back. He was a much loved pet and was sadly let go due to the previous owners health.
He's a year old and really well behaved and trained in the house, however, outdoors he just wants to run and have fun, and doesn't engage at all.
I've had gundogs in the past, so know they can be tricky when their noses take over. So far I've tried acting completely daft; arm waving and daft noises. Treats from ordinary to chunks of warm roast meat. Running in the opposite direction. Hiding rabbit dummies in hedgerows and looking for them myself. Throwing balls etc. All of no interest whatsoever to him. The only way he eventually comes back is when he needs a drink. He doesn't go a long way, or out of sight, but he is getting braver, so I'm starting to be reluctant to let him off.
Has anyone got any advice for how I can get him to engage?
I am training recall using the book 'total recall' but haven't got to the outdoor stage yet. It's more about him acknowledging my existence 🤣
TIA

Your first mistake is letting a dog without recall off lead. Back to basics and a long line OP!

Enclosed dog field for running off his energy a few times a week. Otherwise, long line and working on recall that way.

As PP said, back to basics.

@ChesterMcLee have you got a whistle? Definitely well worthwhile getting, especially if you fancy doing some gundog training with him once he learns to engage. I also have an emergency £1 squeaky dinosaur from Pets at Home which is dead useful and cuts through almost any noise or distraction. Agree about the longline but please god if you do use one – and they are super useful – put him in a harness while using it. I don't use a harness on my cocker except when needing the longline so it needn't be forever if you, like me, are harness averse.

Bless him, sounds like he's loving life but slightly too much! They're just the best dogs ever and he's lucky to have found someone who even knows what a rabbit dummy is, let alone knows how to use it!

Just to add to that as I reread your post again, if you're wanting to work on him acknowledging you, you could start by just rewarding him for making eye contact with you. Then build up to 'touch' so he comes in to touch your hand, and go from there.

@brushingboots Thanks for your reply!
I am whistle training using the total recall book, it works through stages, and I'm not at the point where I can use it outdoors. I've tried a squeaky toy and he's not interested.
I've had a trained gundog in the past, so I vaguely remember what I'm doing.
I think the problem is that he didn't have much off lead time with his previous owner, so is relishing every second.
I was hoping someone might have an idea of how I could be more interesting than a nice sniff/fox poo/pigeon etc 🤣
The place I take him is enclosed so he's safe from escaping, I don't particularly like long lines.
He does glance at me, but he's always too far away to reward for it.

You've only had him a matter of weeks - IMO it's way too soon to start letting him off the lead, especially when you know he has no recall.

You need to focus on building a bond - ideally start indoors, then progress to the garden, then out on walks. Slow and steady is the key - then you can start increasing the number of distractions while doing so. He'll need to be on a lead at first, then you can progress to a long-line, then a secure field etc.

Good luck!

I suspected that might be the case, that he's trying to suck up every second outside to make up for it!

Honestly I don't think any of us will ever be as exciting to our spaniels as a pheasant or even a pigeon flush. But you can work with him on that. That's what I do anyway. I don't expect her to not be interested, I just try and channel her prey (and sniff) drive into something that I can use and something controlled. We hunt together so she does sniffing with me, not away from me. I plant things for her to find etc, but that works because she's already close to me,

Second pp you need to work on your relationship with this dog, so you’re the big treat the high value prize and he is seeking you out when out and about. It’s hard work but will be worth it, once you are more exciting than a bird, or a squirrel or other dog etc then he will want to come and see you, and what you may or may not have as a treat for him.

Oops posted too soon! So that, I guess, is what you want to be working on. That's what I'd do, anyway – get him to work next to you to achieve the same goal, which to him is sniffing and finding things. I don't love a long line either but I did find it useful in reinforcing the (now invisible) circular zone that I want her to stay within.

We do a lot of zig zag exercises – walking up fields diagonally crossing our path back and forth so she covers the ground nicely. I started that using treats and asking her to find: would stand and chuck a treat to my left, ask her to find, then I'd turn and walk the opposite way and chuck another one down when she looked up, and repeat the find, and so on. She isn't food motivated but it's not a food exercise, it's a sniffing and finding one and all part of building value in being with rather than away from you but still getting to do the crucial thing: sniffing and finding. @ChesterMcLee

I second what a pp says about finding food - for a dog with limited interest in food, the hunting and seeking and finding is a lot more fun than just being given something. If it happens around you then you become more interesting.

Play is also good for building a relationship, though something that is utterly engaging indoors (we had a bit of rabbit fur on a line) is often completely boring outside, where there is fresh scent everywhere.

Building focus on you and engagement out of doors with a dog whose main motivating impulses are scent and hunting can be hard work. I've had one like that and I spent a lot of effort building value in me (so lavish praise became rewarding), and building value in food (by coupling it with attention and lavish praise). I combined it with a lot of basic obedience, establishing a solid heel, sit and stay. It took a lot of effort and persistence, but it was worth it.

Thanks for everyone's help, I'll give the longline a go and try more hunting.
I'm sure we'll get there in the end, he's a smashing dog and I feel I owe it to his previous owner who was heartbroken to let him go.
Picture of Chester 😊

Honestly you will never be, could never be as interesting as a mad chase through bushes after a rabbit, so you need to make sure that situation just never arises.
I wouldn't feed this dog from a bowl at all. It's almost wasting a resource iykwim. I'd make sure every single thing he ate came from my hand as a reward for attention.

Reward every engagement with you. Everywhere. Every time. Say his name and reward. Make his name worth responding to.

It’s early days but dogs are creatures of habit. Don’t let him run off. Keep him on a long line.

as a fellow spaniel owner I feel your pain. My dog has “perfect” recall…. Until she smells or sees a squirrel 😂 then she acts completely deranged. Luckily we live along the ridgeway so I can let her off where it’s safe to do so and squirrels are safe too. Otherwise she has to stay on the lead. It’s a shame for her but it is what it is. I have one of the ones that go round my waist so I still have free arms.

You can book secure dog fields relatively cheaply whilst you work on recall, we have a dog that is a springer x and she loves to flush through the undergrowth.
Whistles seem more effective for her than voice commands, it’s a fairly high pitch gun dog one.
Sometimes we just can’t compete with whatever she is doing and we just wait for her to come back, she doesn’t approach other dogs/walkers so doesn’t get into mischief however we only left her off lead in 2 places because of her selective recall which is somewhat limiting but despite having her for years and lots of effort the need to do what she was bred for in deeply ingrained so secure fields have been great for us.

Just to add - make sure your recall rewards are the BEST. My cockerdor has (so far) really good recall but we've (a) practiced every day since he was a teeny puppy, dropping the long line and running away - you're playing catch-up with a dog who might not be completely bonded to you yet; and (b) he gets big chunks of chicken or beef or pork when he recalls, particularly to the whistle. He's probably 95% solid on whistle recall now at seven months - I'm sure it can't last, and it probably wouldn't last a week if I stopped giving him the Good Stuff 😄

I feel your pain! My gun dog has been far harder to train with recall than previous dogs. A few months ago I thought I'd never be able to let him off. But now we're making massive progress. My trainer said we have to make him see there's more value in coming back to me than leaving me. Sounds like you're doing all the right things, with tasty high value treats. Cheese works best for my dog.

I was told to go back several stages. Start in the house/garden, which he was already good at. But interrupt him while playing in the house with a recall command. Then throw him a treat on the floor, let him have it, then call him back and give him 5 treats, so the value in returning to you is greater.

Repeat with other distractions. Like someone calling him to the top of the garden. You can him back and treat heavily.

Keep repeating in garden/ house. Then go to a quiet outdoor area. A car park after closing time, etc, where there are limited distractions. Have him on a short lead. Let him sniff around. Then call him to you. Treat heavily. Repeat somewhere safe but quiet and boring, on a longer line.

Then when you are confident, go back to the field on a long line. Then eventually.... off lead. It's taken 6 months and he pretty much comes back to me instantly now. 8/10 times 🤣🙈

I've taught him an emergency stop command too. So if I shout stop! He stops dead. (7/10 times 🙈) We have a lot of bikes etc, so this was useful.

Good luck! It's been a hard slog, but 100% worth it. We enjoy our walks now. They were torture 5 months ago. My dog is also 1 x

How did you teach the stop command, @Bourneo ? I've heard of sit at a distance but it doesn't sound like that.

@Bupster You didn't ask me but I've taught it with a whistle (the stop whistle, so one pip – lots to google on that and there are lots of methods) and as a verbal command 'stop', latterly by practising when on lead. We'd get to a curb, say, where we'd need to stop anyway, and I'd say 'stop' and stop, and she would too. One day I shouted 'stop' in the garden at her and she did, and I realised I'd taught it at distance too.

Edited to add: You could practise it really effectively with your long-line if you've got it out anyway!

Ah, I'm doing that with 'wait' already @brushingboots ! thank you - I'm maybe not as hopeless as I think I am. Although he doesn't really generalise it when he's not at a curb, I can keep going. I think he's moving into full deaf adolescence at the moment, he's completely bonkers 😄