Tips for encouraging puppy to be DC's dog and introducing to resident dog.

[kittybloom]

Gratefully looking for guidance on two points, please.

We are looking to get our 13yr DC a puppy. Probably a King Charles Cavalier and going via breeder puppy route. We are experienced dog owners but not with that breed. Currently we have a frenchie x staffie type rescue (approx 5-6 yrs) who is probably more my dog that others in the family but tbh is a rock solid family dog who is happy with anyone. However, this second dog would be a companion dog for DC who has some mobility needs and has a lot to cope with from a medical perspective. DC needs some joy in their life! My worry is that initially in puppy days, it'll be DH and me who have to lead on lot of the feeding etc to ensure puppy is kept safe, in particular as we will be introducing to resident dog. Plus, DC will be at school during the day so puppy will mainly be with DH or me during school hours. How do I help to encourage that puppy recognises DC as their lead companion? It would be such a shame if they defaulted to another family member. We don't have dogs upstairs so can't say they can share DC bedroom or similar. I'm guessing DC helps with food and leads on training and play? Any tips?

Also, any ideas for introducing the puppy to our resident dog? Although a rescue, she has no aggression or anxiety and is fine with other dogs. Generally more submissive in the pack. However, as a staffie cross (and probably with a bit of boxer, tricky to tell), she is pretty strong but also clumsy and I'm a bit worried she could hurt the puppy by accident. How do I stop her feeling miffed? Do we feed separately? My initial thought is that I will crate train puppy and then can feed puppy in crate and also keep puppy in there at night so safe.

TIA

I don't think there is any way you can ever guarantee who a puppy will bond to.

Some dogs will be equally attached to the whole family but others do prefer one person. It is not always the primary care giver that they are closest to though. One of our dogs was bonded more closely to my husband even though he went out to work and I was home all day, but the puppy we got after him loved me far more. Our current pup is my shadow.

With regard to introducing a puppy to an adult dog, you need to do it very slowly. I would recommend a baby gate/dog gate to keep them apart, whether you crate or not - a gate is always useful to enable them to interact safely. Do not assume your older dog will find it easy and do not trust her. We had two mature bitches that were both calm, lovely dogs. We introduced an 8 week old male puppy, we were convinced they would be fine. Wrong. One bitch adored him but her sister loathed him and it took months to get her to accept him. Hopefully it won't be like this for you but you have to be very, very careful to start with. Feed separately, don't favour one over the other, and try to make sure the older dog's routine is disrupted as little as possible. She needs her regular walks and food and play/cuddles, but as long as she feels loved, she will be okay. I'm sure you'll manage fine 🙂

Excellent advice from @PyreneanAubrie

I would say that IME, dogs pick their human. My cocker spaniel has picked my daughter. I’m the one that feeds her, walks her etc and do all the things you’d associate with ensuring a dogs love but it’s my daughter who she clambers into bed to at night, my daughter she goes to when she’s scared etc. My daughter wasn’t even born for another year after I got my cocker…

I would also say, never get a dog for a child. You cannot be sure the dog will even want to spend time with the child - they’re sentient beings. You need to be prepared for, at a worst case, the dog having no interest in your child. And if that does happen, your child will be devastated (and that is awful to deal with).

And no matter how lovely your current dog is, some dogs do just take against other dogs for no reasons (I foster and trust me, it happens even with the most placid existing dogs). As PA said - keep them separate for the first few weeks, feed separately, walk separately, play and train separately and when you do introduce them, no furniture for either of them, no toys etc. Again, you need to be prepared for the worst: keeping them separate for months if not over a year.

I always say prepare for the worst because adding a new dog to a family is not twice the work, it’s ten times the work. That being said, I think what you want to do is lovely - just being realistic about the art of the possible.

I'd agree about not getting a new dog for a child, as firstly the odds are high that one of the adults in the family will end up with the work and secondly, you can never be sure who the dog will like the best. I've known dogs dote on the dickhead of the family and not on the person who did all the dog-related work. I would say though that involvement in training and play (and play can be really key part of training) is a great way to build a bond with a dog.

We introduced new puppies outdoors on neutral ground and so far it has worked well. The worst we have had is weary disinterest ('Oh God! A puppy! Bang goes my restful retirement!' - though the puppy in question did give the old chap a new lease of life). The best was instant adoration ('A puppy! I'll bring her up for you! Come to foster-mummy, sweetie!' - I had to be very careful to give that pup time away from foster-mummy with just me.)

Other than that, if you go for a cav, be very aware of the health issues that plague the breed. They are delightful little dogs, but the breed's health is terrible.

Honestly - you can't. Dogs are the ones who pick their humans at the end of the day - so you're going to get a puppy I would be really wary of introducing it as DC's puppy as you're potentially setting them up for a lot of disappointment. It's a family dog who you can then train to help DC if you want.

I have taught quite a few children agility with their family dogs and as a rule they will work for the child if they carry out the majority of the care, walks, training etc. That means the child’s value is high. I’ve often had families who think agility is about running around and their young child can do that but it is a lot more complex than that and it soon becomes unstuck when the child has no value to the dog.

The child has mobility needs so this may not be appropriate or feasible. They are looking for a companion breed.

I wasn’t suggesting they do agility. Just my experience with family dogs and bonding.

I understand that but it may not even be feasible for the child to feed or walk the dog.

In that case it will be luck if the dog bonds with them. Most dogs are self serving and only have value in people who do things for them. Not all of course but most I’ve been involved with. The exception is it’s a dog finds affection valuable which really IS a gamble as most don’t place a lot of value in it.

Thanks everyone, all of this feedback is very much appreciated and makes sense.

I'm not too worried about the principle of getting a new dog for a child in that we have already dismissed a cat on the same point - we are not a cat family! So in the event that either DC or dog don't fall for each other, that would not be an issue in that we all really love dogs and I've had a dog in the house since 2005.

Perhaps I described it clumsily - it will be a family dog but we'd like it to have default connection with DC as her companion.

I guess it will be the case of trying to encourage the bond between DC and dog and all the comments here are helpful. I've got one friend with cockapoo who latched on to my friend, ignores the 2 teenage children and resources guards my friend. It's that type of thing which I want to avoid although I'm hoping that cavalier breed, that is less likely as my experience seems to be they are naturally affectionate to all.

@Newpeep, I took your point that bonding can be in lots of ways but can be pot luck. @PyreneanAubrie is correct though in that although DC can feed the dog (and does already feed our current dog), the vast majority of the walking would not fall to her. So it is that type of thing that's worrying me.

Slightly nervous about resident dog in that now I'm (over??)thinking it, her favourite dogs tend to be male and the ones we've liked so far are female. But maybe that's no bad thing if they are indifferent to each other. She hasn't fought with another dog before and we rehomed her in early 2020 (pre pandemic) so trying to hold onto that.

Other than health issues, my understanding of Cavaliers was happy & affectionate? I've naturally been around thin coated dogs a lot more which tend to be the bully type breeds (boxer / boston / staffie / frenchie) and they are big proper people dogs which I really like. Also our current dog is pretty lazy which perhaps I'm a bit spoilt by but I very much know all dogs need proper walking and that isn't a problem as DH and me always do that even if DC not always involved. It is just if it is raining, current dog is not moving from the sofa which suits me!

Have you had a puppy before? A puppy and an existing dog is a lot more work than two dogs?

I'd also consider whether a male dog might be better with an existing female staff type dog. I have two females but of a dog social breed. Staffies are often not particularly fond of other dogs which is often more of an issue with a same sex pairing

Absolutely agree with all the comments above re. the dog will choose, but I absolutely think they can strengthen their bond through training in any discipline - trick training, obedience training, whatever. They could perhaps work towards a trick champion title together, if standard obedience/agility type disciplines aren't appropriate with mobility issues.

There's another thread running at the moment about a young cavalier who seems to need much more exercise and input than the owner was expecting - it might be worth a read.

Yes, they're companion dogs but all young dogs need a decent amount of exercise and stimulation if you want to avoid behavioural problems.

The idea of wanting a dog to have a default connection to one person is nice in theory, but the reality rarely ever works that way - especially when that specific person can't physically do much of the dogs' care.

I'm not saying that to put you off, I just think you need to be realistic about how dogs' bond and accept that they very often choose their own person no matter what we try and do to persuade them otherwise 😂

My lab was bred to be a guide dog for the blind but after her first 18 months of training she was such a rockstar that they chose her to be used for breeding, which meant she lived with us when she wasn't in heat or having pups. She was retired after three litters and now she is all ours.

The organization that breeds and trains these dogs start at birth introducing them to different people, places and stimuli. They live for a year with a puppy trainer but at other times they are at the breeding facility or in other people's homes. The idea is to get them comfortable with all kinds of situations. They are tested many times to make sure they are suited for the job and fewer than half make it through.

Our dog probably loves me the most because I feed and walk her but she is very happy to spend time with my kids or anyone really. If we encouraged her toward one of the children (and that child gave her regular treats) I have no doubt that she would bond to them. Certainly if she had been matched up to a blind person she would have known that was her person even if they lived with their family.

So it is possible but it comes down to the breed, temperament, and training. Labs are commonly used for service dogs because of their easygoing personalities and because they are very trainable. These particular labs are purpose-bred from a long line of dogs with the personality and physical traits that make for a good guide dog. I don't know anything about cavaliers but if they are sweet and easygoing, if you get it as a young puppy and your son provides as much of the care as possible that might go a long way. (Whether it is advisable to assume a young teenager will keep up with the care is another question.)

Our dog is equally bonded with us all, bizarrely for different reasons.
He loves me because I'm basically the one that keeps him alive, I feed him and walk him and make sure his needs are met.
He adores me.

DH comes home late in the afternoon and becomes dogs favourite person because he knows he's about to be taken on a two hour trek.

DD1 comes home from work or has a day off, she's his favourite.
She does all the stern training and not so much play.

DD2 comes home from uni and she's his favourite because she's the goof with him, rolling on the floor and teaching him fun tricks.

So in all I guess we're all his favourite.
But this might be down to him being a Weimaraner who are notorious for being well bonded to their whole family.

It's great because means we all get a break from being favourite and Rafa gets all his needs met.

Job done.

If your dog prefers boys I would definitely get a boy to increase your chances of a happy relationship.

I had 3 dogs for many years and only kept them apart for the first few months while we were out. The oldest dog loved every dog she met but really just tolerated the next 2, although she was defensive of them if she thought other dogs were annoying them.

I fed separately as 2 were hoovers & 1 was so slow.

Are you absolutely set on a Cav? The health problems in the breed mean it could be quite a challenge to find a healthy one so very expensive to insure.

Thank you everyone.

I have had a puppy before so aware of what that all entails but not two dogs (one of which is a puppy). I can only go on what I've seen from my friends who have done it which is that I can see the additional level of work involved but think our family makeup will make it work. We have an older DC who can also help.

I'm also aware of the exercise needs of dogs which is why I've discounted various breeds.

I've just done a quick stomp around the woods and from quick sense check of dogs she met on that walk, plus thinking about the other dogs we know, I'm more and more thinking she is happier with a male dog. This thread has been very helpful to help me focus on this sort of thing. That said, we are very lucky (although some it not just luck as we've done a lot of training too) in that she relatively bomb proof around dogs in that on the rare occasion she is in kennels if we are on holiday, she is often paired with a more anxious dog to give them security. The feedback from kennels is that she works well with other dogs as originally we were a bit worried about that as she is a rescue so we don't know her full history. I would say that she looks to be social with dogs, goes in the play position and the risks have been more that she can be a bit boisterous and I have to anticipate that as other dogs not always looking for it. Sometimes she is quite still and indifferent to dogs but I suspect that is when she is feeling a wary and more likely down to the other dog. She is 5yrs and has calmed down with time. I would say ultimately human driven rather than falling in with a dog pack but generally a good all round family dog, if a bit clumsy at times.

The tips how to help bonding (although not guaranteed) with DC have been invaluable and align to my thinking too. Thank you.

I'm not 100% set on Cavaliers but gone round and round with breeds! We have discounted a lot of toy breeds as I don't love excessive barking, some are too intelligent and some I'm worried that our dog or older teen will tread on! I'm not really looking for a large dog. Without judgment on others, I'm not that keen on some of the poodle crosses which often feels a bit of a fashion thing and I don't like that I won't know what personality or size will come through. Our current dog is the size of a large Frenchie / small staff and tbh I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with anything much larger. Cavs come up regularly as companion dogs and family dogs which is really what we are looking for. Any other breed tips welcomed.

I'm nervous about the health side. Our dog was at the vets last week so I asked about cavaliers and health and their view was that has become better than in recent years. The ones I'm looking at have been tested and KC registered etc but tbh I do find a lot of it comes down to pot luck with dogs. I've had a boston terrier who are notorious for health problems and our one lived for 13.5yrs with very little issues. Our current dog is a mix which should be a good thing but has allergies and ear infections regularly...

KC reg just means a pedigree. It’s absolutely nothing to do with health. They are still very prone to health issues and syringomyelia (sp?)

It isn't just KC though (although I find that to be a helpful indicator as to the quality of the breeder), it is that they come with various tests and you can see the results of those. Or should I only put little store by that?

With my Boston, he came eye tested for a particular condition (can't recall what now) whereas current rescue we knew we were taking on certain conditions but she was already one year so we knew what was in the mix.

@kittybloom
It sounds as if you are really doing your research and that is good to know.

Cavaliers are one of the most unhealthy breeds in existence, I love them but would never get one on that basis.
https://www.peta.org/features/never-buy-cavalier-king-charles-spaniel/
I've with you on poodle crosses, you never know what you're going to get and there are so many puppy farmed dogs. What about a standard or toy poodle? Of if you want a dog that isn't that bothered about walks so doesn't bond with the walker so strongly what about a whippet? Our was very snuggly and would probably prefer the snuggler to the walker.

Puppies are such hard work though and they will probably bond more with whoever is around all day. Do you have a rescue around that you could go and look around? DC might see a dog that they feel a connection with and an older dog would be easier around your other dog than a tiny puppy. The other thing is your DC will be an adult in 5 years time where as you'll have the puppy for up to 15 years.

Have you had a look at Bliss Cavalier Rescue? You would have upfront knowledge of health issues and temperant

and then also don’t have to deal with puppy issues

also look at many years as they often have cavvies

with a lovely resident dog you’re in a great position

I was also going to say would it be worth considering another rescue? Major advantage that you can test the dogs together before committing, which isn’t as easily done with a puppy.

Midlands Dog Rescue seem to get lots of spaniels. Lots of poodle crosses - which I know aren’t what you’re looking for in a puppy, but in a rescue where more of the personality etc is known the right one may be worth considering.

Edit to add - I have no personal experience of that rescue group, just one I’ve seen around.

Looking at Bliss Rescue now!

@Jessie1259 the other breed we have properly looked at was toy poodle! It was a lovely litter but mum was quite big which combined with the intelligence / alertness of the breed, we weren’t quite sure right for us. I also LOVE whippets and the style of how they like a walk is quite similar to my current dog. Big burst of energy and then asleep on the sofa. But I don’t think would be right breed for DC.

Thinking it all through…

Why is everyone pushing the OP to get a rescue? Surely that is risky in a home with a child that has mobility issues. She needs to know exactly what she is getting. A puppy will be far more trainable and probably more readily accepted by her existing dog.