New puppy "process" - does this sound right?

[tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz]

Morning folks looking for some advice/reassurance ...

After years and years of wanting we are finally at the stage in life where we can provide a good home and life for a dog. We have decided, after consider in and trying the rescue option, to go down the puppy route.

We found a local-ish breeder on Champ Dogs who x 2 people I know well have had their beautiful dogs from so that's reassurance in itself.

Mum is confirmed pregnant and puppies expected in December. We haven't been to see her yet and haven't been invited to. Is this normal?

But anyway crux of my post - breeder has advised that order of who gets pups is based on who pays a deposit first.

How will this work? As I'm assuming in order to be first to pay people will not have been to see the puppies? Which is absolute imperative surely? I know she's legit but still - handing over a wad of £ based on some photos doesn't sound sensible?!!!

Can someone advise what the process is?

Thanks all. I want to do this the right way x

Only a bad breeder would let anyone meet their pregnant bitch tbh - they get very stressed when they are expecting. Depending on the breed, you shouldn’t expect to meet the puppies before they’re 5-6 weeks old. I didn’t meet the golden I have until he was five weeks. Then it was twice a week for two weeks.

BUT I would not pay a deposit for a puppy I had not seen. TBH that is not how a good breeder operates. They should take enquires. Them they should thoroughly vet everyone before they even let them in their house. Then they should allow the first visit. Then weed out anyone who they don’t like. Then a second visit and then deposit. Anyone who would sell a puppy to someone they haven’t met or have only met once is a really bad breeder…

Just because other people have gotten healthy puppies from there doesn’t actually mean anything - puppies might be healthy but it doesn’t sound like this breeder cares where they go. Which makes her a rotten breeder.

Ahhh ok thanks for replying so quickly. She has said she refunds deposits "if anything untoward happens" but didn't elaborate. And apparently some parents have already paid which adds a bit of FOMO

But I know I need to be cautious and think with my head here.

Thanks again x

I wouldn’t have expected to meet the mum beforehand as pregnancy can be very stressful for them. However, being asked to pay a deposit on first come, first served basis raises red flags. A good breeder will invite you to meet puppies once they are born and allow you to express a preference before they match the litter to their forever families. We paid our deposit when puppies were six weeks and we had met them two times. We got the girl we wanted but if the breeder had said that personality wise it wasn’t good match - we live in city, so puppy needed calm temperament to deal with traffic/people noise - we would’ve accepted that.

Thanks, this is all good to understand.

We met mum before she was pregnant and we were interviewed effectively. Then we went back to meet puppies twice before collection day. We paid no deposit and paid on collection day. Breeder picked the puppy for us based on personality of the pups and our family from what she knew. She did a good job as ddog is perfect personality wise for our family

I wouldn’t be happy with that tbh - it sounds slightly like she’s trying to pressure you into making the decision. A good breeder really wouldn’t do that.

Whether or not she returns the deposit is slightly irrelevant - she shouldn’t be taking deposits for puppies when she has never met you

Thanks everyone I appreciate time and your replies.

I've read through all our emails and I'd forgotten that when I first approached her start of October she had available puppies that were a week old. While also telling us she had just mated this particular girl. That was a red flag wasn't it?

I think it's back to the drawing board ish ... we are on a list with another not to far away breeder (her price is more than this lady) and again, we know a hike one of her dogs has gone to also. so we've waited this long for our beautiful boy or girl what's a few more months eh?!

She's just sent me a questionnaire (her document I think not a Champ Dogs one) to complete and suggesting we talk next week. Wondering if it's worth doing anyway just to suss her outa bit more?

We've paid small deposits on two puppies, 14 years apart. Both were fully refundable in the event we didn't want to go ahead having met the pups at 5 weeks. It just helped the (two different) breeders establish who was serious and who wasn't. I had no problem with it. Obviously there's an element of trust involved that they would in fact return it if you weren't keen having met the litter, but if you know people who have had dogs from this breeders before, then ask for their opinion.

Both times involved a very long phone, in one case, and video in the other "interview" first, so I was as content as I could be that the breeders were ok.

Our breeder is very reputable but also operated on a first come first served basis. They notified all interested parties once the puppies were available for viewing (around 11 weeks iirc) and took appointments. After the viewing you decided which puppy you wanted and paid a deposit, and people who had appointments after us would miss out once all the puppies were chosen.

While MN is very good for puppy advice, I would just caution a bit that in majority MN view a breeder will be a bad'un if they haven't got all their puppies spoken for two years before they've even thought of having a litter. Standards should absolutely be high when looking for a puppy, but MN standards are on another level.

It's perfectly possible to assess whether a puppy will be a good bet by a) the (full, breed specific) health tests of its parents, and b) an in depth conversation with the breeder. Add in c) the personal recommendations of the two people you know and that's a pretty good initial due diligence. It's not like it's someone selling unknown pups on Facebook.

I would just have an honest conversation with the breeder, maybe fill in the questionnaire and that's a good opportunity to document your questions/concerns.
A deposit doesn't seem so bad if you have a legal agreement in place, documenting the terms and conditions.

What about two litters (I'm assuming different bitches) in a short space of time - is that a concern?

We've had lots of puppies (tried the adoption route) one sitting on my legs now,year old border collie. We met her at a week old,along with mum and dad. We chose her then,paid small deposit, Got regular videos and collected her at 7 weeks, normally would have been,,8,, but mum had turned her back on the litter, they were fully weaned and I have had dogs, mostly borders for 50 years.

It's not so much the "first come first served " part that worries me (assuming no other worries) as both people I know who have had her dogs went ahead so there wasn't a deposit return in these cases.

From the £ perspective I'm worried that some emails, a questionnaire and gentleman's agreement aren't watertight in getting money back if we don't go ahead.

Two litters close together from two different bitches is quite normal, it is down to mother nature that her bitches come into season close to each other.

Ahhh ok. I didn't know that

A bitch should be having no more than one little per year if the breeder is reputable. That aside, I don't think it's a particular red flag not to have met her before the puppies are born. We've been through this process a few times, most recently with our now 4-month-old puppy and we didn't visit him until he was around 4 weeks old, but obviously met the mother too at that point. Also quite normal to pay a small deposit/holding fee. I think ours was £50 which secured our "place" to choose a puppy based on the order in which deposits were received.

If you're concerned about paying a larger deposit (as I would be), ask the breeder if you can see a copy of their terms upfront. Again, if they're reputable then they'll have no problem providing these.

Thanks. It's a £400 deposit on a total of ¥1400

Very normal not to see the pregnant dam.

Not always normal to sell in order of deposit paid. Though some breeders do it that way.

Usually you would be informed when the pups are born and kept up to date with photos and how their characters are developing. Bits of film etc.

Then some breeders with ask in order of deposits paid any preferences based on sex of pup, colour, what they've seen in the footage etc.

Other breeders will match their pups to the potential buyers. So you can be on the list but someone else comes along later than you who is a better match for the pup and you miss out altogether.

It is annoying for you but the best breeders often do it that way. They get to know the potential buyers and what they will do with the pup. So obviously they are not going to sell a potential show champ to someone who has no intention of showing. (they pick off the best for themselves first)

They are not going to sell a pup hard wired for gun dog work to a first time pup owner that just wants a pet spaniel etc.

If the litter is very small and produces 3 top quality pups, the breeder might retain all or only sell to folks she knows in the breeding cohort.

It really is all up in the air until the pups are born and around 6 weeks ish. Some breeders don't ask for the deposit until pups are viewed.

But some do ask for a deposit to reserve and that is quite normal.

That's the system our breeder had too

This kind of depends on your own ethical viewpoint.

Some people dislike breeders who fundamentally make their living from breeding. They may have many dogs and several litters on the go. They are more likely to be in a purpose built puppy area, not in the kitchen under the feet of the family.

Doesn’t necessarily mean they’re dodgy. But it’s also not what some people would look for in a breeder.

We didn't meet either of our breeders before our puppies were born but we did live about 10 hours drive time away.

For both of ours (tibetan terrier and Brittany) we started off about 2 years before purchase.

Tibetan terriers are mostly to be found in the show ring so we went to dog shows (this is a great way to meet breeders and pick up the grapevine about who is a good breeder and who's not as breeders are very bitchy!!)

You can also get your name known and who's planning litters.

The Brittany was a trickier one to get as brittany dogs are working dogs. I wanted a sports dog but not for shooting.
So i got in with the secretary of the breed club.

Breed clubs are a great way in to your chosen breed too.

I did not go to any gundog events (best place to see Brittany in action) but i did meet the secretary and her 3 brits.

She knew who was who amongst breeders. She got my name out there. I spoke to lots of breeders on the phone. Eventually, one agreed to sell me a pup. Most would not sell to someone not wanting to train to the gun but persistance paid off.

Although i never met the breeder beforehand, and i paid a deposit, i knew my money was safe because the breeder was well known in the Brittany world!!

So - get to shows even if you have no intention of showing. Tip one.

And get in touch with the breed club. Tip two.

If your chosen breeder has never been heard of in the show/working/sporting dog world - avoid. They will only be in it for money.

Good breeders breed to improve the breed standard and produce quality pups.

Champdogs is a decent place to find breeders though. They are usually ok on there.

So sorry @WYorkshireRose - i totally mis read your post and thought you said it WAS a red flag not to view pups beforehand🤭

Or i quoted wrong person.

Apologies anyway - i agree with all your post.