I need advice

[dogfail]

Hi please be kind I'm feeling very anxious.

We have a 3 year old lab he's a big dog and we are pretty sure there's some German shepherd in him too.

We have had dogs before and were very dedicated to training him . I did puppy classes and trained at home but found him hard to train. We hired a dog trainer who didn't have much success. When he was around 18 months we hired a well known dog behaviourist, she did help a lot and things improved (plus probably getting older)

In terms of walking him he mostly obedient. I walk on lead unless in remote areas. He will walk by me on lead unless he sees a cat or a German shepherd dog. Then he will pull and bark. He looks aggressive but actually just wants to play/chase.

I have been having back issues lately and have struggled to control him if he pulls so I have been wearing a brace. I am also struggling with fatigue (iron deficiency /possible peri) .

Three days ago we were walking and he saw a man with a German shepherd and started barking jumping. Normally I stand still holding him until they pass , but they were quite far away and we were walking away from them so I tried to keep walking. His pulling bent my finger back and I dropped the lead.

Dog bounded over started jumping and barking in front of them. (Never touched them but obviously scary) the man had a baby on his chest. He is very mad and starts kicking my dog. Which is making my dog run round . I catch my dog the man gets in my face shouting and swearing at me. Very aggressive. Im scared and run off. Get home discover the dog has broken my finger.

I'm now terrified to walk the dog. Dh has done last couple days but works away Monday- Wednesday so those days I have no choice. We already have a dog walker twice a week and can't really afford any more.

We use a gentle leader collar which after trial and error I have found best.

Any advice on how I can manage this better?

If you are struggling with control, a slip lead high up under the jaw and just tight enough not to slip down will almost certainly help. If the dog pulls, the lead will tighten more, be uncomfortable, and the dog will stop. I used this method on a 35kg dog who was prone to lunging at unknown dogs and it gave me a lot more control. He was fairly food motivated so I'd draw him away with a treat. I also gave him an outlet for his natural drives (retrieving, finding things in grass etc) and he improved all round, learning that he didn't need to lose his shit at dogs he didn't know.

Your situation is a bit different, but giving your dog an outlet, improving focus on you and working on basic obedience (especially recall) should all help as well (probably you've been trying all this already if you've sought advice).

And in my view, a slip lead is no more aversive than any sort of head collar. I tried head collars on two of my dogs and they hated them every second they were on, whereas they are not bothered by the slip leads and have always been happy to have them put on.

Bad luck about the finger. They are surprisingly easy to break and bloody painful. A friend broke one of hers due to her dog and did a lot of physio which helped. I hope yours heals well.

We have a very reactive DDog too and the distracting with treats when she sees another dog/cyclist/runner works about 90% of the time.

Also wearing her out, as suggested above, seems to calm her. So thinks like some of her kibble on a sniffle mat. Lots of "find it" games. I've not got experience of labs or GSDs though.

Hope your finger recovers quickly, sounds bloody painful

First thing I'd do is book a secure dog field so he can have some off lead exercise.

Then I'd find some very high value treats (dry sprats, cheese cubes, little bits of hotdog) and when you see a dog approaching get his focus on you using the treats. Do this for all distractions not just a particular dog. He needs to know that focusing on you gets the best rewards.

A well fitted head collar is much more humane and effective than a slip lead. They can be really helpful in these situations.

Thank you for all the helpful replies.

We use a head collar. Tbh I'm reluctant to try a slip lead as I think he would hurt him self .

I may try treats again. Cheese does work well. I got out of using them once he had improved.

Will try to do more finding exercises. I think once we got to a better place I've lapsed a bit but maybe he still needs it

Mine needs consistency. So treats everytime we spot a trigger and work on letting her use her natural instincts every single day. If you look on them a a permanent thing rather than something to get her to a better place then they just become a normal part of your daily routine.

I also second the advice about doing some work on a secure dog field. Does she have a doggy friend that she could have a good romp around with?

Hi

Sorry that you are struggling a bit. Back pain and a big powerful dog is not a great combination; I have fibromyalgia and a large breed puppy so I know what you're going through. I can imagine the broken finger being incredibly painful and I hope it will heal quickly.

I'm not sure if it's the actual pulling/training that you want help with or the mental block/fear aspect so I'll address both.

You have clearly put a lot of effort into training the dog. You say you're using a gentle leader headcollar and if you're happy with that I wouldn't change, but I would recommend also using a sturdy neck collar that you can slip your hand through when he really starts to pull. Our pup is 38kg currently and we have an Ezydog double-up collar which is soft but very strong. I personally would absolutely not recommend use of a slip collar for a very large powerful dog.

I don't know what sort of lead you use but we walk our giant breeds on a 5ft webbing lead of the type that is sold as Dog Training Lead/Horse Lunge Line. I have a black one that is slightly cushioned and doesn't hurt my fingers so much; thin leads can be brutal on your hands.

Like your dog, our pup is generally good on the lead until she sees a large dog, then she wants to play and will pull like crazy. She is not food motivated so treats will have little effect. She is responding better to verbal correction now but there are still times when I feel I am fighting with her. Now, it's just about perseverance and more frequent walks so you could try the same as a refresher course for your dog.

With regard to loss of confidence; it happens. I'm afraid you have to tough it out or it turns into avoidance. I would start off by taking him to a quiet place where there is less likelihood of coming across other dog walkers and just practice your lead control to build up confidence again. You were very unlucky with your recent experience and it is off-putting, but you need to tell yourself that was a one-off incident and most of the time your walks will be uneventful. I went through this loss of confidence with my previous dog after he was attacked by an off the lead dog, and the anxiety around it does last a while. Be patient with yourself and stick to safe quiet places until your confidence comes back.

Sorry for long reply but hope some of it is relevant to your situation.

Thank you so much ❤️

I also have a reactive dog that lunges and growls when seeing another dog. Fortunately, she's only small, 15kg. She's 8yrs and I've only had her a few weeks and am working on her issues as she's had a shit upbringing.

My behaviourist has told me to keep dog on a short lead (hand in strap, rest of the lead loose across my body and other hand at the bottom of the lead, short enough that dog is at heel). I use a harness. When there is a perceived threat, keep going, moving is key, don't stop and carry on. Don't react. Don't shout. You are in charge and if the dog senses you are nervous or you're shouting, then the dog will question your ability to look after them, so will take over iyswim. It's not easy for me (I have disabilities) and she's tiny compared to my last dog, having a large dog will be more challenging.

Have you tried a halti? That worked for my previous dog.

I'm sorry about your finger.

But the other dog owner did the right thing. And remember never to get involved in a dog fight. Drop the lead.

Ouch - I'm sorry about your finger, I hope it heals quickly.

I don't think changing equipment is the answer here as you say he walks perfectly fine until he sees his triggers - it's more about changing his emotions around those triggers so he sees them and looks to you for something positive.

If treats worked last time then I would go back to those - despite what the internet will tell you, for many dogs they're a lifelong need, not just something you use for a few months during training. German Shepherds in particular are quite independent so a positive reinforcer like cheese is almost essential. Combine that with a food driven Labrador and you're on to a winner, really.

I agree, back to treats and if possible hire a secure field for exercise.

I think to build up your confidence it's probably best to go back to a training class. Maybe start off with 1:1 but long term, a group would be more beneficial. You both will learn to be around other dogs and how to manage the excitement.
Another good trust/ bonding exercise is teaching your dog some tricks- especially once they have masterd the basics. That can be anything from giving paw to balancing a treat on their nose. Try and get them perfected at home and then do them out & about so your dog learns to always keep an eye on you.
Some dogs need lifelong training and stimulation or they slip into bad habits.

Dog bounded over started jumping and barking in front of them. (Never touched them but obviously scary) the man had a baby on his chest. He is very mad and starts kicking my dog. Which is making my dog run round . I catch my dog the man gets in my face shouting and swearing at me. Very aggressive. Im scared and run off.

I was really sympathetic until this point (tbh I don’t buy the ‘it’s only cats and GSDs he has issues with rubbish either). BUT Running away after your dog launches at someone walking by with a baby?! Regardless of how aggressive he was - and he had every right to be - dog ownership is about responsibility.

At the very least you need to muzzle your dog and go back to a behaviourist. This cannot happen again. You were incredibly lucky this was not serious.

You can say all you want he wants to play - incredible that it’s only with GSDs and cats he does this with. Dogs do not do that behaviour with specific breeds when they want to play. It’s fear or aggression. Behaviourist and muzzle. Surprised no one else has made this point tbh

@Killingoffmyflowersonebyone I totally get what you're saying but I'm not sure it helps to come on and make OP feel even worse than she clearly already does. She knows she had a lucky escape and is doing the right thing by coming on here and asking for advice.

She wasn't just letting her dog charge up to people at random - she had him on head collar and a lead which slipped out of her hand and she broke her finger in the process. She then had to deal with a loose dog as well as an aggressive and angry stranger in the middle of nowhere - of course she wasn't going to hang about.

She took her dog out of the situation and made it safe again for everyone - I'd actually say that was exactly the right thing to do, not standing about and having a confrontation!

I agree with this.

Any unwanted interaction is a bad interaction.

Our pup began to show aggression to certain dogs, could have been hormonal, might have been that he didn't like the look of that particular dog after he was attacked.

But we took that on board and didn't allow him any interaction with any dog for months.

We can't know what his triggers are.

So we've worked in his 'manners'.

If we see another dog either approaching or coming from behind, he's been trained to sit and wait.
Regardless of what the other walker might say about their dog being friendly.

It's not essential for a happy dog to play or interact with other dogs.
Nice if they have a 'friend' but no way essential.

Ours has one who lives across our street and he'll play a couple of times a week. That's a bonus.

Treat every dog as if they're a threat to yours.

I understand you losing confidence, god knows we've all been there!

As others have suggested hire a field, they're really not expensive.
And work on your relationship and rebuild your trust

@coffeesaveslives i know what you’re saying (and I do get it) but I can’t imagine my dog running up to someone, having yanked the lead out of my hand, barking at them and making it about me - which OP did. She didn’t need to confront him but she definitely should have apologised and at least checked the baby was okay.

I'm not sure I would have apologised to a stranger who was all up in my da s and swearing after he'd kicked my dog, tbh.

Not even when your dog has lacunhes at them and was jumping and barking they had a baby?! I definitely would have - regardless of how scared I was and even as a single woman alone with an angry man

@Killingoffmyflowersonebyone no, as my priority would be getting myself out of the situation and to safety, not hanging about a random stranger that has already shown themselves to be violent and aggressive.

It's not that I wouldn't be mortified but that I wouldn't feel safe remaining in that situation- the man had already kicked at the dog multiple times, who's to say he wouldn't attack me too?

I'm glad you would be confident enough to remain in the situation alone with a physically aggression stranger but it's really unnecessary imo to criticise someone for not doing that.

I'd also add that it's really easy to say what you'd do in hindsight or from an outside perspective - but OP had just had her finger broken and was in the middle of nowhere with a physically and verbally aggressive stranger - getting herself away and to safety was absolutely the sensible thing to do.

I've also had the misfortune of dealing with aggressive men shouting on walks and there's no reasoning with them so I just walk away - they generally don't want an apology, they just want to shout and intimidate.

Have treats in your hand as you work past distractions, so the dog focuses on you, not the other dog. Lots of ‘look at me’ comments to engage them as well.

See, I know the theory, just got to put into practice!

None of us know how we would react in this situation until it happens to us, that's the problem. It's fine thinking you would/should apologise and yes, it is clearly the right thing to do, but I can also see that fight or flight kicks in, you'd panic and want to run away from the reality of the situation.

I've never had an experience like this so I could have come on and said "well you shouldn't have let go of the lead" because I feel that I wouldn't have, but I can't know that for sure. It's not always that simple.

I'm sure the OP knows that this shouldn't have happened and that she cannot afford for anything like this to happen again. It could have had serious repercussions for her. But I'm not sure that making her feel worse about it is going to be helpful in resolving her problem.

Not always an option, some dogs are not food driven and with a large strong dog it isn't very easy to offer treats from hand or pocket anyway - you need both hands on the lead.

Agree food isn’t always a good motivator in these situations.

We have a 3 year old Lab and went through phases of this when he was younger and despite being a very greedy dog, food wasn’t enough to distract him.

That’s because “value” to a dog is dependent on the situation. A piece of cheese is extremely high value to my dog when we are in the house and there’s nothing else going on, he will do ANYTHING for cheese in the house. But when we were out for a walk and there was an open field, all the smells, another dog present, that piece of cheese is as low value as it gets. That’s natural, there’s something better. What we did, through lots of training, was find something else high value which we could give him in exactly those situations which was more high value to him than a treat. For us this was sometimes a ball, sometimes a specific chew toy or rope toy that he ONLY got in those situations- never for the whole walk and never in the house, this kept it high value. With time and practice we got to the point where he’d see these “triggers” and immediately look to us for that toy.

Also build that bond back with the dog, mental stimulation, feed from hand, lots of training new tricks in the house just for fun etc all builds that “my human is fun and interesting” bond with your dog without even having to step out of the house.

It is hard and it takes time, effort, patience, endless training! But now our Lab is 3 and he is I’d say my perfect dog, perfect recall, perfect heel, perfect on and off lead even now we are walking with our daughter in the pram. It takes a lot but it’s so worth it.

Does he go offlead and have a good run , if so would it be easier for you to drive him somewhere so his time on a lead is limited particularly whilst your finger heals